rheo reports: let's short-track making a new ... #6431

New Issue

yourland-report · 2024-03-10T03:46:49Z

yourland-report commented

2024-03-10 03:46:49 +00:00

rheo reports a bug:

let's short-track making a new /spawn for new players - we lose like 25% of possible new players because they time out immediately when they first join.

Player position:

{
	y = 67.775001525879,
	z = -21480.80859375,
	x = -25941.59375
}

Player look:

{
	y = -0.79133027791977,
	z = -0.43547496199608,
	x = -0.42913633584976
}

Player information:

{
	lang_code = "",
	formspec_version = 7,
	state = "Active",
	ip_version = 6,
	min_rtt = 0.16400000452995,
	avg_rtt = 0.17399999499321,
	min_jitter = 0,
	max_jitter = 4.21399974823,
	avg_jitter = 0.0020000040531158,
	connection_uptime = 16524,
	serialization_version = 29,
	patch = 0,
	protocol_version = 42,
	major = 5,
	max_rtt = 5.0799999237061,
	minor = 9,
	version_string = "5.9.0-dev-454dd8576-dirty"
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		jointime = "1644205752",
		bitten = "0",
		hotbar_size = "16",
		["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "6",
		yl_commons_thankyou = "76",
		played_time = "8415988",
		digged_nodes = "21826",
		placed_nodes = "21211",
		died = "2",
		crafted = "2229",
		["petz:lycanthropy"] = "0",
		["signslib:pos"] = "(20048,20012,19963)",
		["stamina:level"] = "0",
		["petz:old_override_table"] = "return {[\"sneak\"] = true, [\"speed\"] = 2, [\"new_move\"] = true, [\"jump\"] = 1.5, [\"gravity\"] = 1, [\"sneak_glitch\"] = false}",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "102",
		yl_commons_player_created = "1644205752",
		partychat = "party",
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = 15, [\"x\"] = 1353, [\"z\"] = 1089}}",
		xp = "0",
		punch_count = "1285",
		["petz:werewolf_clan_idx"] = "2",
		inflicted_damage = "295762",
		["hud_manager:spawnit:hud_enabled"] = "y",
		["petz:werewolf"] = "0",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no",
		arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0",
		["ethereal:fly_timer"] = "-99",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1710025899",
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:boots_quickrun\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"\"}",
		["petz:werewolf_vignette_id"] = "16",
		["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\"}",
		["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.66814e+09",
		repellant = "0",
		hud_state = "off"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = P9xc16HDNt0filVWMy3yjs3JD933n6fa

Profiler save:

profile-20240310T034649.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 9h 3min 54s | max lag: 0.716s | clients (17/52): AspireMint, Bailiff, Bond007, Chache, daydream, flux, gianlp, jackofthebean000, JinnyC, Mariah-carey, mrminer, poppyasdan, rheo, Squawk, taonza12, testmineweirdo, the_chosen_one

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz -25942 68 -21481

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction P9xc16HDNt0filVWMy3yjs3JD933n6fa D2691E -25942 68 -21481

rheo reports a bug: > let's short-track making a new /spawn for new players - we lose like 25% of possible new players because they time out immediately when they first join. Player position: ``` { y = 67.775001525879, z = -21480.80859375, x = -25941.59375 } ``` Player look: ``` { y = -0.79133027791977, z = -0.43547496199608, x = -0.42913633584976 } ``` Player information: ``` { lang_code = "", formspec_version = 7, state = "Active", ip_version = 6, min_rtt = 0.16400000452995, avg_rtt = 0.17399999499321, min_jitter = 0, max_jitter = 4.21399974823, avg_jitter = 0.0020000040531158, connection_uptime = 16524, serialization_version = 29, patch = 0, protocol_version = 42, major = 5, max_rtt = 5.0799999237061, minor = 9, version_string = "5.9.0-dev-454dd8576-dirty" } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { jointime = "1644205752", bitten = "0", hotbar_size = "16", ["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "6", yl_commons_thankyou = "76", played_time = "8415988", digged_nodes = "21826", placed_nodes = "21211", died = "2", crafted = "2229", ["petz:lycanthropy"] = "0", ["signslib:pos"] = "(20048,20012,19963)", ["stamina:level"] = "0", ["petz:old_override_table"] = "return {[\"sneak\"] = true, [\"speed\"] = 2, [\"new_move\"] = true, [\"jump\"] = 1.5, [\"gravity\"] = 1, [\"sneak_glitch\"] = false}", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "102", yl_commons_player_created = "1644205752", partychat = "party", yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = 15, [\"x\"] = 1353, [\"z\"] = 1089}}", xp = "0", punch_count = "1285", ["petz:werewolf_clan_idx"] = "2", inflicted_damage = "295762", ["hud_manager:spawnit:hud_enabled"] = "y", ["petz:werewolf"] = "0", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no", arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0", ["ethereal:fly_timer"] = "-99", yl_commons_player_joined = "1710025899", ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:boots_quickrun\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"\"}", ["petz:werewolf_vignette_id"] = "16", ["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\"}", ["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.66814e+09", repellant = "0", hud_state = "off" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = P9xc16HDNt0filVWMy3yjs3JD933n6fa ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20240310T034649.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 9h 3min 54s | max lag: 0.716s | clients (17/52): AspireMint, Bailiff, Bond007, Chache, daydream, flux, gianlp, jackofthebean000, JinnyC, Mariah-carey, mrminer, poppyasdan, rheo, Squawk, taonza12, testmineweirdo, the_chosen_one ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz -25942 68 -21481 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction P9xc16HDNt0filVWMy3yjs3JD933n6fa D2691E -25942 68 -21481 ```

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2024-03-10 03:46:49 +00:00

AzelfYL commented

2024-03-10 03:52:25 +00:00

I think this is mostly related to the lag issues at Haven. I think it's best if we find the root problem to that issue first before doing something drastic like that.

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

1. kind/enhancement

1. kind/construction

2. prio/interesting

labels 2024-03-10 07:30:27 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-03-10 07:33:38 +00:00

Even if we built a spawn in the sky, eventually people will want to visit Haven.

Plus, the timeout right after join happens when someone quits during asset download, so if we want to prevent that, we need to make YL less asset-heavy

Even if we built a spawn in the sky, eventually people will want to visit Haven. Plus, the timeout right after join happens when someone quits during asset download, so if we want to prevent that, we need to make YL less asset-heavy

whosit commented

2024-03-10 08:00:38 +00:00

Plus, the timeout right after join happens when someone quits during asset download, so if we want to prevent that, we need to make YL less asset-heavy

Both can happen:

I can't join from my old device because I can't even finish loading.
I remember some active players dying and timing out trying to load spawn (but playing fine elsewhere).

Even if we built a spawn in the sky, eventually people will want to visit Haven.

Maybe they could "arrive" on a ship right outside of Haven?

At least they won't be spammed by sign entities right after load...

> Plus, the timeout right after join happens when someone quits during asset download, so if we want to prevent that, we need to make YL less asset-heavy Both can happen: - I can't join from my old device because I can't even finish loading. - I remember some active players dying and timing out trying to load spawn (but playing fine elsewhere). > Even if we built a spawn in the sky, eventually people will want to visit Haven. Maybe they could "arrive" on a *ship* right outside of Haven? At least they won't be spammed by sign entities right after load...

whosit commented

2024-03-10 10:30:38 +00:00

This is where I think the spots with lots of entities are (drawn by hand):

And here is my suggestion:

pro:

should have much less entites around (mostly farm signs I guess)

cons:

people would just jump the ship and leave without seeing our awesome spawn :p
(could be avoided somewhat with "walls" of some kind...)

Alternative spot for the "arrival ship" could be near shipwright.

Another idea would be to spawn them on the airship,
pro:

requires less modifications to Haven
people can't escape from the airship corner without exploring a little bit

cons:

close to the post office, so unless it gets replaced by NPC or moved, it's not significanly better than current spawn IMO.

What should good newcomer spawn point have?

Basic information we can move to new spawn
simple access to farms/mines
some cool stuff to look at?
what else?

Also, what's the best way to handle it?
Spawn players on the ship only first time they join, then always use the default spawn? Or some other way? Depend on level? Allow to switch manually?

This is where I _think_ the spots with lots of entities are (drawn by hand): ![lag_spots.png](/attachments/723cf5cf-898f-4d16-903f-3d4fd32bf044) And here is my suggestion: ![image](/attachments/8db98a6b-a880-4905-aa12-a982f30d45ae) pro: - should have much less entites around (mostly farm signs I guess) cons: - people would just jump the ship and leave without seeing our awesome spawn :p (could be avoided somewhat with "walls" of some kind...) Alternative spot for the "arrival ship" could be near shipwright. Another idea would be to spawn them on the airship, pro: - requires less modifications to Haven - people can't escape from the airship corner without exploring a little bit cons: - close to the post office, so unless it gets replaced by NPC or moved, it's not significanly better than current spawn IMO. What should good newcomer spawn point have? - Basic information we can move to new spawn - simple access to farms/mines - some cool stuff to look at? - what else? Also, what's the best way to handle it? Spawn players on the ship only first time they join, then always use the default spawn? Or some other way? Depend on level? Allow to switch manually?

lag_spots.png

2.7 MiB

image.png

2.1 MiB

👍 1

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-03-10 12:03:06 +00:00

We could also make them spawn in Aventiure

👍 1 👎 3

DragonWrangler commented

2024-03-10 12:17:55 +00:00

We could also make them spawn in Aventiure

That’s a good idea. Aventiure does have a lot less lag

> We could also make them spawn in Aventiure That’s a good idea. Aventiure does have a lot less lag

AzelfYL commented

2024-03-10 12:58:22 +00:00

We could also make them spawn in Aventiure

Adventire does have far less lag, but it is not connected to the seaship network.

Frankly I don't think there's a good idea to mitigate the lag out of moving the post office and plots away from the spawn.

> We could also make them spawn in Aventiure Adventire does have far less lag, but it is not connected to the seaship network. Frankly I don't think there's a good idea to mitigate the lag out of moving the post office and plots away from the spawn.

tour commented

2024-03-10 21:38:17 +00:00

We could also make them spawn in Aventiure

Haven was the reason why I kept playing in YL.
It has everything we need to introduce new players. The public resources are great to make a fast start.

Meanwhile Aveniture has some big cons compared to Haven:

difficult to navigate there.
low building quality. Haven is full of cool builds, lore etc. It's a good showcase about the community. Aveniture feels more like the spawn of an anarcy server.
surrounded by a deadly desert (Scorpions + these caves under the desert stone).

Aveniture lag cannot be compared to Haven, but... there are quite a lot shops... I notice huge fps drops there too...

> We could also make them spawn in Aventiure Haven was the reason why I kept playing in YL. It has everything we need to introduce new players. The public resources are great to make a fast start. Meanwhile Aveniture has some big cons compared to Haven: - difficult to navigate there. - low building quality. Haven is full of cool builds, lore etc. It's a good showcase about the community. Aveniture feels more like the spawn of an anarcy server. - surrounded by a deadly desert (Scorpions + these caves under the desert stone). Aveniture lag cannot be compared to Haven, but... there are quite a lot shops... I notice huge fps drops there too...

DragonWrangler commented

2024-03-11 12:52:31 +00:00

Well: Cold Drake could be an option, or perhaps Tenebris as well. Haven is just too laggy

Boot commented

2024-03-11 19:46:33 +00:00

Of course, Haven must remain the spawning city. Alias, tell us what needs to be done to defuse the merchant district and other corners of the city and a deadline and then we'll implement it step by step until you can walk normally again.

👍 1

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-03-12 01:32:10 +00:00

Of course, Haven must remain the spawning city. Alias, tell us what needs to be done to defuse the merchant district and other corners of the city and a deadline and then we'll implement it step by step until you can walk normally again.

So far the only lead we have is "content", most of all signposts. All plots need to get rid of as much content as possible and dismantle as many signposts as reasonable. Until this is properly fixable and fixed, that's pretty much all we can do for now.

> Of course, Haven must remain the spawning city. Alias, tell us what needs to be done to defuse the merchant district and other corners of the city and a deadline and then we'll implement it step by step until you can walk normally again. So far the only lead we have is "content", most of all signposts. All plots need to get rid of as much content as possible and dismantle as many signposts as reasonable. Until this is properly fixable and fixed, that's pretty much all we can do for now.

whosit commented

2024-03-12 01:52:45 +00:00

My number 1 suspect now is item frames and item shelves.
Number 2 is posters/signs/anything with text visible without clicking on it.

My number 1 suspect now is item frames and item shelves. Number 2 is posters/signs/anything with text visible without clicking on it.

flux commented

2024-03-12 02:18:02 +00:00

we can't make anywhere other than Haven to be /spawn at least until the cities update. this is probably mostly a dupe of #2132.

flux referenced this issue

2024-03-31 17:15:52 +00:00

flux reports: we restrict players from runni ... #6599

flux referenced this issue

2024-04-09 23:16:18 +00:00

tagtraum reports: players that can't handle have ... #6634

Boot commented

2024-04-10 14:14:02 +00:00

Why shouldn't absolutely new players spawn a little further west, around the height of the tutorials? August could also receive her there.

Jammy commented

2024-04-22 11:37:26 +00:00

My idea would be to revive North Haven and use that as new player's spawn. From my survey on my own server I found that players tend to love to start building stuff immediately after they join.
Haven is beautiful, but lacks the "This server will be my start" feeling.
Also, there are many appliances in North Haven that can be convenient for newbies, such as a marketplace, the Hellivator, and a nether portal(which was made relatively safe already).
Another feature of North Haven is that it is close to many cities, like Gond en Galad, Frosthall(and its cousins), Finntown, and the Gemini village.
We shouldn't trash such a nice place. Using it as spawn will definitely be a great choice.

My idea would be to revive North Haven and use that as new player's spawn. From my survey on my own server I found that players tend to love to start building stuff immediately after they join. Haven is beautiful, but lacks the "This server will be my start" feeling. Also, there are many appliances in North Haven that can be convenient for newbies, such as a marketplace, the Hellivator, and a nether portal(which was made relatively safe already). Another feature of North Haven is that it is close to many cities, like Gond en Galad, Frosthall(and its cousins), Finntown, and the Gemini village. We shouldn't trash such a nice place. Using it as spawn will definitely be a great choice.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-04-22 13:26:51 +00:00

Those ideas are mutually exclusive. If people get to build right away, the area will soon be trashed.

rewired_X commented

2024-04-22 20:23:12 +00:00

whatever gets designated as the new "spawn" must not be full of buildings.
sure, there's plenty of candidates for a new spawn, but it must not be a laggy hell once you join, and then whoops, you can't even move because mt sets the view range by default to 90.
haven and the other cities are certainly wonders in their own right, but if we're getting a new spawn, it needs to be almost barebones. at least, that's what i think.

whatever gets designated as the new "spawn" must not be full of buildings. sure, there's *plenty* of candidates for a new spawn, but it must not be a laggy hell once you join, and then whoops, you can't even move because mt sets the view range by default to 90. haven and the other cities are certainly wonders in their own right, but if we're getting a new spawn, it needs to be almost barebones. at least, that's what i think.

AzelfYL commented

2024-04-22 23:32:28 +00:00

Perhaps it could be something where the spawn is located far underground (or is located in the sky but not underground if theres no space and made to look like its underground) and there's a character who teleports you to the city in the style of like BioShock Infinite

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-04-23 01:05:09 +00:00

With 1.4 there will be some selection screen anyways, which allows players to choose where to start the game and under what circumstances. Like "I want to be an elf right from the get-go" or "I want hardcore mode!" or "I want to spawn in a random city" or "I want to have a tutorial story at the beginning" or ....

Jammy commented

2024-04-23 10:48:11 +00:00

Those ideas are mutually exclusive. If people get to build right away, the area will soon be trashed.

While building pros see them as trash, for newcomers it could be their first project. Let's encourage players to try. As for builds having offensive meanings or grieving other's stuff, then just remove them.

> Those ideas are mutually exclusive. If people get to build right away, the area will soon be trashed. While building pros see them as trash, for newcomers it could be their first project. Let's encourage players to try. As for builds having offensive meanings or grieving other's stuff, then just remove them.

👎 2

AzelfYL commented

2024-04-24 00:17:42 +00:00

More often than not, the builds are by the definition of the majority, "trash" (floating houses, badly constructed tree houses, dirt huts) and I don't think Alias would be willing to have the server spawn ending up surrounded by said builds.

👍 1

Jammy commented

2024-04-24 06:06:36 +00:00

floating houses, badly constructed tree houses, dirt huts

Well, a lot of players quit because they think the building rules were so strict.
I don't think calling other people's builds "trash" is a way of being excellent to others. This server is for playing not for admiring.

> floating houses, badly constructed tree houses, dirt huts Well, a lot of players quit because they think the building rules were so strict. I don't think calling other people's builds "trash" is a way of being excellent to others. This server is for playing not for admiring.

DragonWrangler commented

2024-04-24 11:11:59 +00:00

Well, a lot of players quit because they think the building rules were so strict.
I don't think calling other people's builds "trash" is a way of being excellent to others. This server is for playing not for admiring.

Well. Maybe this isn’t something you mind, but take a look at all the reports of “trash” builds on here. Obviously many other players do mind.

At YL nice builds are encouraged. And if lots of not nice builds are littered right around spawn, then that’s not making a very good first impression on the server.

> Well, a lot of players quit because they think the building rules were so strict. I don't think calling other people's builds "trash" is a way of being excellent to others. This server is for playing not for admiring. Well. Maybe this isn’t something you mind, but take a look at all the reports of “trash” builds on here. Obviously many other players do mind. At YL nice builds are encouraged. And if lots of not nice builds are littered right around spawn, then that’s not making a very good first impression on the server.

👍 2

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