Freebie reports: Every new player get an empty ... #2708

New Issue

yourland-report · 2022-09-18T13:22:24Z

yourland-report commented

2022-09-18 13:22:24 +00:00

Freebie reports a bug:

Every new player get an empty free book in the inventory. Why not give a written book too? Some kind first words by the staff, some first rules, some first steps for the first orientation in Haven.

Player position:

{
	z = 1148.1999511719,
	x = 1992.1689453125,
	y = 14.5
}

Player look:

{
	z = 0.90990269184113,
	x = 0.01032289955765,
	y = -0.41469323635101
}

Player information:

{
	state = "Active",
	major = 5,
	minor = 6,
	version_string = "5.6.0",
	lang_code = "de",
	formspec_version = 6,
	ip_version = 6,
	min_rtt = 0.01799999922514,
	max_rtt = 0.97100001573563,
	avg_rtt = 0.026000000536442,
	min_jitter = 0,
	max_jitter = 0.94300001859665,
	avg_jitter = 0.0030000004917383,
	connection_uptime = 260,
	serialization_version = 29,
	patch = 0,
	protocol_version = 40
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		partychat = "party",
		arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "0",
		hud_state = "on",
		xp = "7",
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:helmet_crystal 1 13620\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 13620\", \"shields:shield_crystal 1 13620\", \"3d_armor:leggings_crystal 1 13620\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_crystal 1 13620\", \"\"}",
		digged_nodes = "1",
		bitten = "0",
		died = "1",
		crafted = "5",
		["stamina:level"] = "12",
		jointime = "1649959597",
		repellant = "0",
		placed_nodes = "2",
		yl_commons_player_created = "1649959597",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1663507155",
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = -12, [\"x\"] = 5984, [\"z\"] = 2968}, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1649963868}",
		played_time = "34331"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = JoxykQrqtnlPgUuByi2pr7U7dkaHDMqY

Profiler save:

profile-20220918T132224.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.5.1-yl | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 4d 15h 14min 28s | max lag: 2.76s | clients: Murmel, Stelio, Freebie, Daylan, MrBlockbreaker, wbcd, drgn, rabenkind, Chacha, Oakenshield, niceride, Bla, Boot, icser, The4spaceconstants, pitman, Aatest, daydream, Bailiff, Segmentation_Fault, Service, Livinstone, AliasAlreadyTaken

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz 1992 15 1148

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction JoxykQrqtnlPgUuByi2pr7U7dkaHDMqY D2691E 1992 15 1148

Freebie reports a bug: > Every new player get an empty free book in the inventory. Why not give a written book too? Some kind first words by the staff, some first rules, some first steps for the first orientation in Haven. Player position: ``` { z = 1148.1999511719, x = 1992.1689453125, y = 14.5 } ``` Player look: ``` { z = 0.90990269184113, x = 0.01032289955765, y = -0.41469323635101 } ``` Player information: ``` { state = "Active", major = 5, minor = 6, version_string = "5.6.0", lang_code = "de", formspec_version = 6, ip_version = 6, min_rtt = 0.01799999922514, max_rtt = 0.97100001573563, avg_rtt = 0.026000000536442, min_jitter = 0, max_jitter = 0.94300001859665, avg_jitter = 0.0030000004917383, connection_uptime = 260, serialization_version = 29, patch = 0, protocol_version = 40 } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { partychat = "party", arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "0", hud_state = "on", xp = "7", ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:helmet_crystal 1 13620\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 13620\", \"shields:shield_crystal 1 13620\", \"3d_armor:leggings_crystal 1 13620\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_crystal 1 13620\", \"\"}", digged_nodes = "1", bitten = "0", died = "1", crafted = "5", ["stamina:level"] = "12", jointime = "1649959597", repellant = "0", placed_nodes = "2", yl_commons_player_created = "1649959597", yl_commons_player_joined = "1663507155", yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = -12, [\"x\"] = 5984, [\"z\"] = 2968}, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1649963868}", played_time = "34331" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = JoxykQrqtnlPgUuByi2pr7U7dkaHDMqY ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20220918T132224.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.5.1-yl | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 4d 15h 14min 28s | max lag: 2.76s | clients: Murmel, Stelio, Freebie, Daylan, MrBlockbreaker, wbcd, drgn, rabenkind, Chacha, Oakenshield, niceride, Bla, Boot, icser, The4spaceconstants, pitman, Aatest, daydream, Bailiff, Segmentation_Fault, Service, Livinstone, AliasAlreadyTaken ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz 1992 15 1148 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction JoxykQrqtnlPgUuByi2pr7U7dkaHDMqY D2691E 1992 15 1148 ```

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2022-09-18 13:22:24 +00:00

flux added the

1. kind/enhancement

label 2022-09-18 13:53:07 +00:00

flux commented

2022-09-18 13:53:34 +00:00

there's literally a library of welcome books right next to /spawn

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2022-09-18 15:23:15 +00:00

Plus, it's not so simple to give people written books in contrast to normal items

Freebie commented

2022-09-18 15:36:57 +00:00

"there's literally a lot of other drinks" could be an answer for #2695, but I never would write that.

A new player gets often a warm welcome by the community in the chat. How to know the key for write something back? At spawn is a kind welcome by August. Some new players talk to him, some not. August is talking English only.

At spawn is a poster with the rules: "1. Be excellent to each other and yourself." So every player knows what to do, no matter what will be the personal, social or cultural background?

At span are the copper board and the map. For the first orientation are lots of signs there too.

Nearby are the helping books

Keybinding
Chatcommands
Mesemaker privs
Locked mesecon
Get a plot
Types of areas
FaQ your land
Personal skin
Lagfixing

and "Welcome to Your Land" by Oakenshield

Some new players will take and read this, some not.

So I guess a given book in the inventory could be a further part of a good start in the game and not a big deal to make it happen.

"there's literally a lot of other drinks" could be an answer for https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/bugtracker/issues/2695, but I never would write that. A new player gets often a warm welcome by the community in the chat. How to know the key for write something back? At spawn is a kind welcome by August. Some new players talk to him, some not. August is talking English only. At spawn is a poster with the rules: "1. Be excellent to each other and yourself." So every player knows what to do, no matter what will be the personal, social or cultural background? At span are the copper board and the map. For the first orientation are lots of signs there too. Nearby are the helping books 1. Keybinding 2. Chatcommands 3. Mesemaker privs 4. Locked mesecon 5. Get a plot 6. Types of areas 7. FaQ your land 8. Personal skin 9. Lagfixing and "Welcome to Your Land" by Oakenshield Some new players will take and read this, some not. So I guess a given book in the inventory could be a further part of a good start in the game and not a big deal to make it happen.

Freebie commented

2022-09-18 15:39:34 +00:00

Plus, it's not so simple to give people written books in contrast to normal items

So, if there are technical reasons not to do, I can understand that.

But, as I played as part of the YourLand-Team at the AES I saw

Some rules and I have to answer to come in after the registration
A nice book given into the inventory with:

Introduction - with a picture in it!
Parties
Server Rules
Mods
Server Info

May we can learn by them?

> Plus, it's not so simple to give people written books in contrast to normal items So, if there are technical reasons not to do, I can understand that. But, as I played as part of the YourLand-Team at the AES I saw 1. Some rules and I have to answer to come in after the registration 2. A nice book given into the inventory with: * Introduction - with a picture in it! * Parties * Server Rules * Mods * Server Info May we can learn by them?

flux commented

2022-09-18 22:03:53 +00:00

"there's literally a lot of other drinks" could be an answer for #2695, but I never would write that.

clearly, new items are not the same thing as adding yet another redundant welcoming mechanism. new players get a dialog box telling them the skinny. then there's the news dialog box. then there's the NPC, the posters, and the library bookshelves. and bailiffs who like to help new players out. this problem is already as solved as it can get. some servers do it differently, some have a book.

> "there's literally a lot of other drinks" could be an answer for https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/bugtracker/issues/2695, but I never would write that. clearly, new items are not the same thing as adding *yet another redundant welcoming mechanism*. new players get a dialog box telling them the skinny. then there's the news dialog box. then there's the NPC, the posters, and the library bookshelves. and bailiffs who like to help new players out. this problem is already as solved as it can get. some servers do it differently, some have a book.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2022-09-19 21:37:06 +00:00

If such a book can save us from another bunch of "I'm new, what can I do here?" questions, we should at least consider it. YL is IMO as helpful as possible, without slapping people in the face with half a Steuergesetzbuch when they enter.

Not sure if such a book, or a "I'm new" faq or anything might help: Those who don't read the new player dialog but barge in right away with the same questions answered in this dialog are usually those who happily ignore August, the boookshelf, the rule poster and everything else, including the book in their inventory.

If such a book can save us from another bunch of "I'm new, what can I do here?" questions, we should at least consider it. YL is IMO as helpful as possible, without slapping people in the face with half a Steuergesetzbuch when they enter. Not sure if such a book, or a "I'm new" faq or anything might help: Those who don't read the new player dialog but barge in right away with the same questions answered in this dialog are usually those who happily ignore August, the boookshelf, the rule poster and everything else, including the book in their inventory.

Freebie commented

2022-09-23 13:53:37 +00:00

Redundancy is certainly undesirable in programming / coding, but redundancy is didactically a very successful way of learning, for example in the acquisition of a new language.

Of course, I'm not in favor of a simple "a lot helps a lot". Existing information should therefore be checked from time to time, but newcomers are certainly grateful for any hint at the beginning.

A book in the inventory (which, by the way, according to members of the staff of the AES server is an additional item) has some clear advantages over all the previous ways:

it goes directly and personally to the players. No player can say that he could not have known this or that (for example, a rule) because he did not find the other possibilities before.
it is a valuable first item because, unlike all other first items, it cannot be consumed. I am sure it will find a special place. Maybe even an extra place of honor in the inventory, comparable to the bags?
it could be a very nice and special item if you use the technical and design possibilities. Instead of long texts, there is also an YL logo and pictures. A figurehead for the server.
it is centrally managed and therefore easier to update in terms of content than all other previous possibilities. Updates also reach experienced players, regardless of time zones and even after long game breaks.
it is easy to point this out. Especially newcomers, who then still ignore such a book, can easily be referred to the book by any experienced person: Look at page 6 in your book, without laboriously searching the various things (welcome text, August, help books, rule poster) again. Everyone has the reference with them.

Redundancy is certainly undesirable in programming / coding, but redundancy is didactically a very successful way of learning, for example in the acquisition of a new language. Of course, I'm not in favor of a simple "a lot helps a lot". Existing information should therefore be checked from time to time, but newcomers are certainly grateful for any hint at the beginning. A book in the inventory (which, by the way, according to members of the staff of the AES server is an additional item) has some clear advantages over all the previous ways: * it goes directly and personally to the players. No player can say that he could not have known this or that (for example, a rule) because he did not find the other possibilities before. * it is a valuable first item because, unlike all other first items, it cannot be consumed. I am sure it will find a special place. Maybe even an extra place of honor in the inventory, comparable to the bags? * it could be a very nice and special item if you use the technical and design possibilities. Instead of long texts, there is also an YL logo and pictures. A figurehead for the server. * it is centrally managed and therefore easier to update in terms of content than all other previous possibilities. Updates also reach experienced players, regardless of time zones and even after long game breaks. * it is easy to point this out. Especially newcomers, who then still ignore such a book, can easily be referred to the book by any experienced person: Look at page 6 in your book, without laboriously searching the various things (welcome text, August, help books, rule poster) again. Everyone has the reference with them.

👍 1

flux added the

4. step/discussion

label 2022-11-07 17:36:00 +00:00

sherkhan30452 commented

2022-11-23 01:03:02 +00:00

Suggestion:

This mod even asks you to agree or not Terms & Condition

newplayer
Yet another show-people-the-rules thing

https://content.minetest.net/packages/cheapie/newplayer/

Suggestion: This mod even asks you to agree or not Terms & Condition newplayer Yet another show-people-the-rules thing https://content.minetest.net/packages/cheapie/newplayer/

flux commented

2022-11-23 04:22:43 +00:00

This mod even asks you to agree or not Terms & Condition

we've already got a mod that shows a message for new players, but it doesn't require you to agree to anything.

> This mod even asks you to agree or not Terms & Condition we've already got a mod that shows a message for new players, but it doesn't require you to *agree* to anything.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2022-11-23 06:03:07 +00:00

I begin to like the initial suggestion. We could even make a book that opens an NPC dialog.

👍 1

sherkhan30452 commented

2022-11-23 08:40:13 +00:00

This mod even asks you to agree or not Terms & Condition

we've already got a mod that shows a message for new players, but it doesn't require you to agree to anything.

Why I want players (and many cooperates) to agree T&C because many may just skip, close the window and start doing random things, and may have an excuse that they weren't told or didn't agree.

> > This mod even asks you to agree or not Terms & Condition > > we've already got a mod that shows a message for new players, but it doesn't require you to *agree* to anything. Why I want players (and many cooperates) to agree T&C because many may just skip, close the window and start doing random things, and may have an excuse that they weren't told or didn't agree.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2022-11-23 10:00:09 +00:00

If we make them "agree" to something longer than 2 sentences, they will simply scroll down and click accept, without ever reading it.

All our documentation is meant to provide access to information, not force something upon people.

If we make them "agree" to something longer than 2 sentences, they will simply scroll down and click accept, without ever reading it. All our documentation is meant to provide access to information, not force something upon people.

sherkhan30452 commented

2022-11-23 10:07:28 +00:00

If we make them "agree" to something longer than 2 sentences, they will simply scroll down and click accept, without ever reading it.

All our documentation is meant to provide access to information, not force something upon people.

Yeah I know, even in some discord channels, people are asked to agree rules then only they can message, even though people just skip it and immediately agree. The point is, they agreed to something like an evidence when dealing with nonsense players who keep arguing over and over. This is meant as a standard (and won't affect the gameplay) for new players.

> If we make them "agree" to something longer than 2 sentences, they will simply scroll down and click accept, without ever reading it. > > All our documentation is meant to provide access to information, not force something upon people. Yeah I know, even in some discord channels, people are asked to agree rules then only they can message, even though people just skip it and immediately agree. The point is, they agreed to something like an evidence when dealing with nonsense players who keep arguing over and over. This is meant as a standard (and won't affect the gameplay) for new players.

flux commented

2022-11-24 02:04:21 +00:00

after thinking about this more, i agree with alias. i think if such a book is done well - making use of the NPC API, incorporating all the basic info links in a single "book" - it'd be fantastic, and could replace a lot of other "introduction" stuff.

but that's a lot of work, and it's not something i really want to do myself.

volunteers?

after thinking about this more, i agree with alias. i think if such a book is done well - making use of the NPC API, incorporating all the basic info links in a single "book" - it'd be fantastic, and could replace a lot of other "introduction" stuff. but that's a *lot* of work, and it's not something i really want to do myself. volunteers?

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

2. prio/good first issue

label 2022-11-24 17:16:41 +00:00

Boot referenced this issue

2022-12-24 09:13:14 +00:00

set reports: have Daydream's Book "HELP! I' ... #3310

Boot referenced this issue

2023-01-05 17:50:17 +00:00

Freebie reports: The work of the bailiffs shoul ... #3323

Sokomine referenced this issue

2023-01-05 18:40:03 +00:00

Freebie reports: The work of the bailiffs shoul ... #3323

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-01-07 16:29:54 +00:00

Even though Alias likes to say, Your Land only has one rule, this isn't exactly true. While you can go play in YL without ever coming across more than this one rule, as soon as you use a certain service you are subject to its rules.

If you harvest from the public farm, you must replant.
If you harvest from the public tree farm, you must replant.
If you harvest from the public tree farm, you must chop the whole tree.
Do not use the /announcement command or the bell for fun
Do /report PLAYER NAME if someone is not excellent towards you.
If you find a bug, do /bug MESSAGE and then stop abusing it yourself. If you need extensive repro, do it on the testserver.
Do not build "impossible" things like floating structures in the air or on the ocean. Ballons and Zeppelins in the air are ok, Ships and rafts on the ocean are ok.
Do not build closer than 300 to cities and closer than 150 to other people's areas unless you are invited.
The mesemaker rules
The city rules
Every city may have rules of their own.
Do not use alt accounts to go around limits like maximum areas or votes or quest rewards.

There are also behaviour suggestions:

If you come across something that is obviously wrong, do /bug
If you find ravaged area, do /bug and we'll clean it up
Do not bring anything into the nether or the arena which you are not prepared to lose

Suggestions welcome

Even though Alias likes to say, Your Land only has one rule, this isn't exactly true. While you can go play in YL without ever coming across more than this one rule, as soon as you use a certain service you are subject to its rules. - If you harvest from the public farm, you must replant. - If you harvest from the public tree farm, you must replant. - If you harvest from the public tree farm, you must chop the whole tree. - Do not use the /announcement command or the bell for fun - Do /report PLAYER NAME if someone is not excellent towards you. - If you find a bug, do /bug MESSAGE and then stop abusing it yourself. If you need extensive repro, do it on the testserver. - Do not build "impossible" things like floating structures in the air or on the ocean. Ballons and Zeppelins in the air are ok, Ships and rafts on the ocean are ok. - Do not build closer than 300 to cities and closer than 150 to other people's areas unless you are invited. - The mesemaker rules - The city rules - Every city may have rules of their own. - Do not use alt accounts to go around limits like maximum areas or votes or quest rewards. There are also behaviour suggestions: - If you come across something that is obviously wrong, do /bug - If you find ravaged area, do /bug and we'll clean it up - Do not bring anything into the nether or the arena which you are not prepared to lose Suggestions welcome

👍 2

Boot commented

2023-01-07 21:11:40 +00:00

Very good composition. Perhaps a reference to the Middle Ages as a theme? That you should preserve the landscape, have dirt and sand (and much more) crafted from cobble.

That even what is built in unprotected areas must be respected, as well as the chests of other players.

No idea if you should mention the /killme or the glitching at all, so you don't draw extra attention to it. Constant dying is also unpleasant. But perhaps these conditions have long since been technically resolved?

Very good composition. Perhaps a reference to the Middle Ages as a theme? That you should preserve the landscape, have dirt and sand (and much more) crafted from cobble. That even what is built in unprotected areas must be respected, as well as the chests of other players. No idea if you should mention the /killme or the glitching at all, so you don't draw extra attention to it. Constant dying is also unpleasant. But perhaps these conditions have long since been technically resolved?

Boot referenced this issue from your-land/wiki

2023-02-07 17:59:11 +00:00

Rules #1

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-02-08 18:45:02 +00:00

Here's a discussion what to do with the outcome:

your-land/wiki#1

Here's a discussion what to do with the outcome: https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/wiki/issues/1

Boot referenced this issue

2023-03-06 16:16:28 +00:00

The help book by daydream #3945

Boot referenced this issue