Freebie reports: The work of the bailiffs shoul ... #3323

New Issue

yourland-report · 2022-12-26T12:52:02Z

yourland-report commented

2022-12-26 12:52:02 +00:00

Freebie reports a bug:

The work of the bailiffs should be more effective and the rules clearer.

Player position:

{
	x = 1992.080078125,
	y = 14.5,
	z = 1148.1999511719
}

Player look:

{
	x = 0.11574433743954,
	y = -0.14711891114712,
	z = 0.98232340812683
}

Player information:

{
	ip_version = 6,
	min_rtt = 0.01799999922514,
	avg_rtt = 0.024000000208616,
	formspec_version = 6,
	max_jitter = 0.40200001001358,
	avg_jitter = 0.010000001639128,
	connection_uptime = 159,
	serialization_version = 29,
	patch = 1,
	protocol_version = 41,
	lang_code = "de",
	major = 5,
	max_rtt = 0.44100001454353,
	state = "Active",
	version_string = "5.6.1",
	minor = 6,
	min_jitter = 0
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:helmet_crystal 1 14320\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 14320\", \"shields:shield_crystal 1 14320\", \"3d_armor:leggings_crystal 1 14320\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_crystal 1 14320\", \"\"}",
		arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0",
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = -12, [\"x\"] = 5984, [\"z\"] = 2968}, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1649963868}",
		yl_commons_player_created = "1649959597",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1672059031",
		xp = "7",
		digged_nodes = "1",
		placed_nodes = "2",
		repellant = "0",
		jointime = "1649959597",
		crafted = "5",
		hud_state = "on",
		died = "1",
		["stamina:level"] = "9",
		bitten = "0",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no",
		partychat = "party",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "23.5",
		played_time = "50046"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = GgqlQcWaWdcOdWjhQNMmgWDAht4lNHwO

Profiler save:

profile-20221226T125202.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.6.1-yl | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 21h 20min 30s | max lag: 3.59s | clients (28/42): _theunknow_, afonsan, AliasAlreadyTaken, Azelf, Bailiff, bizon, drgn, Ecklair, ElusiveAstropath, Enfo3, Ernesto, FFleder, Freebie, killja, labrat, Laylem, Miri, Murmel, niceride, Player356, Ravise, rewired_X, Robo, Service, sherkhan30452, Sysmatic, WhereIsHommy, yo_hi

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz 1992 15 1148

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction GgqlQcWaWdcOdWjhQNMmgWDAht4lNHwO D2691E 1992 15 1148

Freebie reports a bug: > The work of the bailiffs should be more effective and the rules clearer. Player position: ``` { x = 1992.080078125, y = 14.5, z = 1148.1999511719 } ``` Player look: ``` { x = 0.11574433743954, y = -0.14711891114712, z = 0.98232340812683 } ``` Player information: ``` { ip_version = 6, min_rtt = 0.01799999922514, avg_rtt = 0.024000000208616, formspec_version = 6, max_jitter = 0.40200001001358, avg_jitter = 0.010000001639128, connection_uptime = 159, serialization_version = 29, patch = 1, protocol_version = 41, lang_code = "de", major = 5, max_rtt = 0.44100001454353, state = "Active", version_string = "5.6.1", minor = 6, min_jitter = 0 } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:helmet_crystal 1 14320\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 14320\", \"shields:shield_crystal 1 14320\", \"3d_armor:leggings_crystal 1 14320\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_crystal 1 14320\", \"\"}", arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0", yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = -12, [\"x\"] = 5984, [\"z\"] = 2968}, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1649963868}", yl_commons_player_created = "1649959597", yl_commons_player_joined = "1672059031", xp = "7", digged_nodes = "1", placed_nodes = "2", repellant = "0", jointime = "1649959597", crafted = "5", hud_state = "on", died = "1", ["stamina:level"] = "9", bitten = "0", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no", partychat = "party", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "23.5", played_time = "50046" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = GgqlQcWaWdcOdWjhQNMmgWDAht4lNHwO ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20221226T125202.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.6.1-yl | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 21h 20min 30s | max lag: 3.59s | clients (28/42): _theunknow_, afonsan, AliasAlreadyTaken, Azelf, Bailiff, bizon, drgn, Ecklair, ElusiveAstropath, Enfo3, Ernesto, FFleder, Freebie, killja, labrat, Laylem, Miri, Murmel, niceride, Player356, Ravise, rewired_X, Robo, Service, sherkhan30452, Sysmatic, WhereIsHommy, yo_hi ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz 1992 15 1148 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction GgqlQcWaWdcOdWjhQNMmgWDAht4lNHwO D2691E 1992 15 1148 ```

👍 3

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2022-12-26 12:52:03 +00:00

Boot commented

2022-12-26 12:55:06 +00:00

I can only report this from my point of view.

The control of the Public Farm. Much is already well regulated.

a. So I control when I'm in Haven, so rather arbitrarily. There should be some kind of button that you press when you checked and everything was fine. With a command you can see when the last check of a bailiff took place. Also with a warning: the last check was over two hours ago or so.
b. If something is missing, I use /status to see if the culprit is online. If he is online, I can write to him. There should be a command that sends a nice standard text to the player with the request to come to the Public Farm and replant. Then you don't always have to write it individually.
c. What to do if the player is online but does not respond. I have no desire to write to them afterwards. There should be a clear regulation as to which levels of escalation there should be, so that all bailiffs proceed accordingly, nobody exaggerates (keyword prison), but also nobody just looks the other way.
d. What to do if the player is offline? So far, some bailiffs have written this on the poster pillory. But this is inaccurate. There should be a command that is less than a /report and not a bug, but extra. The text should reach the player as a warning when he logs in again and it should be visible to staff on a player-related basis, something in conjunction with /info, also so that you can see different messages combined.
e. As a staff, I can easily access the buttons. Bailiffs without fly and ghost priv cannot be reached at the moment. However, there are also seeds in the bailiff office to sow by hand.

Controlling the chat

a. I had already asked to differentiate the chat for staff a bit so that you still have an overview. By the way, as a staff you should be able to hide the extra content so that you can do F12 without this content.
b. I don't follow the chat all the time. There may be a command/spam, which players can enter, so that the present bailiffs are made aware of the chat.
c. There must be a clear regulation on the extent to which capital letters are allowed. I no longer feel like justifying myself to other players after a request to a player not to use capital letters.

Helping players

a. Fortunately, many of our teammates are very helpful, so that not only the bailiffs are in demand. However, newcomers should know how to ask for help without having to rely exclusively on the chat, which is not read 24/7.

b. I don't see it as my job to greet newcomers, but on the other hand I think it's nice when it happens. There should be an automatic greeting of newbies when no one is "on duty" in the chat. Sometimes I chat anyway, then I could do it manually, but that's rather sporadic. Maybe there can be a command in which you can log in and out of the service in the chat?

That was my 5 cents. I'm writing this mainly because I'm more unhappy than Bailiff right now. I also have no desire at all to explain things (in English) to the wrongdoers (which is tedious enough but necessary) AND later the same thing again to fellow players, mitbailiffs or aliases. This is painstakingly playful lifetime.

I can only report this from my point of view. 1. The control of the Public Farm. Much is already well regulated. a. So I control when I'm in Haven, so rather arbitrarily. There should be some kind of button that you press when you checked and everything was fine. With a command you can see when the last check of a bailiff took place. Also with a warning: the last check was over two hours ago or so. b. If something is missing, I use /status to see if the culprit is online. If he is online, I can write to him. There should be a command that sends a nice standard text to the player with the request to come to the Public Farm and replant. Then you don't always have to write it individually. c. What to do if the player is online but does not respond. I have no desire to write to them afterwards. There should be a clear regulation as to which levels of escalation there should be, so that all bailiffs proceed accordingly, nobody exaggerates (keyword prison), but also nobody just looks the other way. d. What to do if the player is offline? So far, some bailiffs have written this on the poster pillory. But this is inaccurate. There should be a command that is less than a /report and not a bug, but extra. The text should reach the player as a warning when he logs in again and it should be visible to staff on a player-related basis, something in conjunction with /info, also so that you can see different messages combined. e. As a staff, I can easily access the buttons. Bailiffs without fly and ghost priv cannot be reached at the moment. However, there are also seeds in the bailiff office to sow by hand. 2. Controlling the chat a. I had already asked to differentiate the chat for staff a bit so that you still have an overview. By the way, as a staff you should be able to hide the extra content so that you can do F12 without this content. b. I don't follow the chat all the time. There may be a command/spam, which players can enter, so that the present bailiffs are made aware of the chat. c. There must be a clear regulation on the extent to which capital letters are allowed. I no longer feel like justifying myself to other players after a request to a player not to use capital letters. 3. Helping players a. Fortunately, many of our teammates are very helpful, so that not only the bailiffs are in demand. However, newcomers should know how to ask for help without having to rely exclusively on the chat, which is not read 24/7. b. I don't see it as my job to greet newcomers, but on the other hand I think it's nice when it happens. There should be an automatic greeting of newbies when no one is "on duty" in the chat. Sometimes I chat anyway, then I could do it manually, but that's rather sporadic. Maybe there can be a command in which you can log in and out of the service in the chat? That was my 5 cents. I'm writing this mainly because I'm more unhappy than Bailiff right now. I also have no desire at all to explain things (in English) to the wrongdoers (which is tedious enough but necessary) AND later the same thing again to fellow players, mitbailiffs or aliases. This is painstakingly playful lifetime.

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

2. prio/elevated

1. kind/documentation

4. step/discussion

labels 2022-12-27 04:20:59 +00:00

Boot commented

2022-12-28 11:06:48 +00:00

Today I had the following case: The back rows had been harvested in several fields. The player was online. I wrote to him several times via DM and also in the chat. There was no reaction. Then the player went offline. I replanted. The player went back online. I went offline, but not happy with this ending.

OK. What could have been the reasons?

The player is a bad guy. Maybe, but I don't think there is in this case.
The player comes from a culture or a game where he does not even have to think that replanting is an option or even a rule?
The player may be very young and cannot read or write. Maybe he can understand images?
The player can read, but at the beginning he does not know how to write, where to find back to the Public Farm, what the recipe for the seeds is and how to bring the seeds into the soil. Nor can he ask for help. What to do?
The player can read and write, but not in English. How can you guess your mother tongue in order to address you with a translation tool?

So many questions.

Today I had the following case: The back rows had been harvested in several fields. The player was online. I wrote to him several times via DM and also in the chat. There was no reaction. Then the player went offline. I replanted. The player went back online. I went offline, but not happy with this ending. OK. What could have been the reasons? 1. The player is a bad guy. Maybe, but I don't think there is in this case. 2. The player comes from a culture or a game where he does not even have to think that replanting is an option or even a rule? 3. The player may be very young and cannot read or write. Maybe he can understand images? 4. The player can read, but at the beginning he does not know how to write, where to find back to the Public Farm, what the recipe for the seeds is and how to bring the seeds into the soil. Nor can he ask for help. What to do? 5. The player can read and write, but not in English. How can you guess your mother tongue in order to address you with a translation tool? So many questions.

👍 3

Boot commented

2023-01-05 17:50:17 +00:00

So far, no rule has become clearer and no question has been answered. If this happens to me as a master bailiff, how can it happen to young bailiffs? So I make another attempt.

I demand a book with the most important rules, see #2708. flux asks for volunteers? Here I am.
If Alias does not provide clear rules, then the master bailiffs for their area have to try it themselves. Since jacob has gone into hiding, I will address Seg. It is mainly about the points I mentioned above. But also about what you are sent to jail for and what someone should be kicked for. At the end, there should be a bailiff manual.
If someone has ended up in jail, they should understand why. It would be very good if posters could hang in the jail: "Why am I in jail?" in the different languages.
The language problem can perhaps be solved if we have a pictogram on which the replanting is clearly visible. We have many beautiful cat pictures here. Maybe we can also have a nice pictogram for replanting in the public farm?
If someone does not replant, then he should not immediately end up in prison. I want a place where the Public Farm is replicated, somewhere far away. If you do not replant after two requests, I teleport there and bring the defaulter to me. There you can learn and practice in peace. There should also be very large posters, in many languages, in which the replanting is shown. If the education works there, it goes back into the game.

These are five very specific proposals. It doesn't have to be all right now, but the direction has to be right. Power and privileges seduce to abuse (also with me). Powerlessness and looking away, however, lead to the slogan. Neither is good. Not even in a game. Therefore, we must have clear rules. Those who have better suggestions should name them.

If I think things will continue as before, then I have to quit my job as a master bailiff.

So far, no rule has become clearer and no question has been answered. If this happens to me as a master bailiff, how can it happen to young bailiffs? So I make another attempt. 1. I demand a book with the most important rules, see #2708. flux asks for volunteers? Here I am. 2. If Alias does not provide clear rules, then the master bailiffs for their area have to try it themselves. Since jacob has gone into hiding, I will address Seg. It is mainly about the points I mentioned above. But also about what you are sent to jail for and what someone should be kicked for. At the end, there should be a bailiff manual. 3. If someone has ended up in jail, they should understand why. It would be very good if posters could hang in the jail: "Why am I in jail?" in the different languages. 4. The language problem can perhaps be solved if we have a pictogram on which the replanting is clearly visible. We have many beautiful cat pictures here. Maybe we can also have a nice pictogram for replanting in the public farm? 5. If someone does not replant, then he should not immediately end up in prison. I want a place where the Public Farm is replicated, somewhere far away. If you do not replant after two requests, I teleport there and bring the defaulter to me. There you can learn and practice in peace. There should also be very large posters, in many languages, in which the replanting is shown. If the education works there, it goes back into the game. These are five very specific proposals. It doesn't have to be all right now, but the direction has to be right. Power and privileges seduce to abuse (also with me). Powerlessness and looking away, however, lead to the slogan. Neither is good. Not even in a game. Therefore, we must have clear rules. Those who have better suggestions should name them. If I think things will continue as before, then I have to quit my job as a master bailiff.

👍 2

Sokomine commented

2023-01-05 18:40:03 +00:00

The control of the Public Farm. Much is already well regulated.

Perhaps more things can be automated? Count how many nodes the player digged and count them against nodes placed. That's a bit costy, but nodes placed is already evaluated due to not all nodes beeing placeable everywhere.

Each player could then see his personal status regarding the farm. Bailiffs could see general status of those who didn't replant enough.

Players who didn't replant enough could get harvest rights (not plant rights) revoked from the public farm. There ought to be some room for forgetting or beeing unable to replant sometimes. Else the system would fail because there'd be not enough unplanted slots when a player changes his/her mind and becomes a replanter. Else players might feel forced to sneak in and quickly replant before the original harvester gets a chance.

a. I had already asked to differentiate the chat for staff a bit so that you still have an overview. By the way, as a staff you should be able to hide the extra content so that you can do F12 without this content.

Good idea.

b. I don't follow the chat all the time. There may be a command/spam, which players can enter, so that the present bailiffs are made aware of the chat.

Nobody can follow chat all the time. Do you have an idea how to name this command? Players who notice spam would need to be aware of this command.

c. There must be a clear regulation on the extent to which capital letters are allowed. I no longer feel like justifying myself to other players after a request to a player not to use capital letters.

IMHO writing all in capitals is bad. Writing a lone word or 2-3 once for emphasis ought to be ok. Depending on context, even one complete chat message may be acceptable in extremly rare situations. It depends a lot on context. Accidents with caps lock also happens. If the player continues to write in all capitals, intervention is certainly needed.

b. I don't see it as my job to greet newcomers, but on the other hand I think it's nice when it happens. There should be an automatic greeting of newbies when no one is "on duty" in the chat. Sometimes I chat anyway, then I could do it manually, but that's rather sporadic. Maybe there can be a command in which you can log in and out of the service in the chat?

Perhaps August - the NPC - could actually welcome new players? We as players don't really see when someone is new. However, joining a new server is stressful, and it might take some time until the player notices that someone talked to him/her. Perhaps August could send a PN after 5 minutes of gameplay? But then, he's an NPC, and they can't receive PNs...

OK. What could have been the reasons?

You forgot "RL came inbetween".

The player can read, but at the beginning he does not know how to write, where to find back to the Public Farm, what the recipe for the seeds is and how to bring the seeds into the soil. Nor can he ask for help. What to do?

A very likely occourance if the player is really new to the game. We all were pretty confused at the beginning. Learning by watching others may help. It's not fast but with new players there's a lot to learn and it takes time.

I demand a book with the most important rules, see #2708. flux asks for volunteers? Here I am.

A very legitimate request.

At the end, there should be a bailiff manual.

Very good plan. The golden rule of the server kind of does cover all - but does not help in detail.

If someone has ended up in jail, they should understand why. It would be very good if posters could hang in the jail: "Why am I in jail?" in the different languages.

There may be diffrent reasons. Hopefully whoever arrested them sent them a message and a mail?

The language problem can perhaps be solved if we have a pictogram on which the replanting is clearly visible. We have many beautiful cat pictures here. Maybe we can also have a nice pictogram for replanting in the public farm?

Great idea! Hopefully someone with skill in creating textures can do such a one.

If someone does not replant, then he should not immediately end up in prison. I want a place where the Public Farm is replicated, somewhere far away. If you do not replant after two requests, I teleport there and bring the defaulter to me. There you can learn and practice in peace. There should also be very large posters, in many languages, in which the replanting is shown. If the education works there, it goes back into the game.

That's a good idea. Imprisonement for failing to replant the farm would be a bit harsh (there is RL which sometimes interferes).

> 1. The control of the Public Farm. Much is already well regulated. Perhaps more things can be automated? Count how many nodes the player digged and count them against nodes placed. That's a bit costy, but nodes placed is already evaluated due to not all nodes beeing placeable everywhere. Each player could then see his personal status regarding the farm. Bailiffs could see general status of those who didn't replant enough. Players who didn't replant enough could get harvest rights (not plant rights) revoked from the public farm. There ought to be some room for forgetting or beeing unable to replant sometimes. Else the system would fail because there'd be not enough unplanted slots when a player changes his/her mind and becomes a replanter. Else players might feel forced to sneak in and quickly replant before the original harvester gets a chance. > a. I had already asked to differentiate the chat for staff a bit so that you still have an overview. By the way, as a staff you should be able to hide the extra content so that you can do F12 without this content. Good idea. > b. I don't follow the chat all the time. There may be a command/spam, which players can enter, so that the present bailiffs are made aware of the chat. Nobody can follow chat all the time. Do you have an idea how to name this command? Players who notice spam would need to be aware of this command. > c. There must be a clear regulation on the extent to which capital letters are allowed. I no longer feel like justifying myself to other players after a request to a player not to use capital letters. IMHO writing all in capitals is bad. Writing a lone word or 2-3 once for emphasis ought to be ok. Depending on context, even one complete chat message may be acceptable in extremly rare situations. It depends a lot on context. Accidents with caps lock also happens. If the player continues to write in all capitals, intervention is certainly needed. > b. I don't see it as my job to greet newcomers, but on the other hand I think it's nice when it happens. There should be an automatic greeting of newbies when no one is "on duty" in the chat. Sometimes I chat anyway, then I could do it manually, but that's rather sporadic. Maybe there can be a command in which you can log in and out of the service in the chat? Perhaps August - the NPC - could actually welcome new players? We as players don't really see when someone is new. However, joining a new server is stressful, and it might take some time until the player notices that someone talked to him/her. Perhaps August could send a PN after 5 minutes of gameplay? But then, he's an NPC, and they can't receive PNs... > OK. What could have been the reasons? You forgot "RL came inbetween". > The player can read, but at the beginning he does not know how to write, where to find back to the Public Farm, what the recipe for the seeds is and how to bring the seeds into the soil. Nor can he ask for help. What to do? A very likely occourance if the player is really new to the game. We all were pretty confused at the beginning. Learning by watching others may help. It's not fast but with new players there's a lot to learn and it takes time. > I demand a book with the most important rules, see #2708. flux asks for volunteers? Here I am. A very legitimate request. > At the end, there should be a bailiff manual. Very good plan. The golden rule of the server kind of does cover all - but does not help in detail. > If someone has ended up in jail, they should understand why. It would be very good if posters could hang in the jail: "Why am I in jail?" in the different languages. There may be diffrent reasons. Hopefully whoever arrested them sent them a message and a mail? > The language problem can perhaps be solved if we have a pictogram on which the replanting is clearly visible. We have many beautiful cat pictures here. Maybe we can also have a nice pictogram for replanting in the public farm? Great idea! Hopefully someone with skill in creating textures can do such a one. > If someone does not replant, then he should not immediately end up in prison. I want a place where the Public Farm is replicated, somewhere far away. If you do not replant after two requests, I teleport there and bring the defaulter to me. There you can learn and practice in peace. There should also be very large posters, in many languages, in which the replanting is shown. If the education works there, it goes back into the game. That's a good idea. Imprisonement for failing to replant the farm would be a bit harsh (there is RL which sometimes interferes).

trap-representation commented

2023-01-07 13:40:39 +00:00

there should be a bailiff manual

Couldn't agree more.

If Boot's first proposal gets accepted, I'd be more than happy to help with writing such a book.

>there should be a bailiff manual Couldn't agree more. If Boot's first proposal gets accepted, I'd be more than happy to help with writing such a book.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-01-07 15:23:58 +00:00

Not everyone's idea of "excellent" is the same. So far, my takeaways from this issue:

Bailiff manual is a very good idea. Let's gather topics this bailiff manual should cover?

When do I move channel, jail or kick?
When do I call in staff instead?
When do I report?
What do I do in case of ... ?
What happens if I'm wrong?
How do I deal with unresponsive people?
How do I deal with people who do not speak my language?

More proposals welcome :)

Also some new commands and mechanics available to bailiffs need to be made. Some proposals:

Display chatlog of a person to bailiffs

/chatlog NAME
Shows the recent (15 to 20 lines) chat history of NAME in a formspec, where it can be copied out from.

Let players specifically ask bailiffs for help

/assist MESSAGE
Sends MESSAGE in elevated colour to all connected bailiffs, invisible for others.

A proper keyword needs to be found. "assist" comes to mind, unfortunately "help" is already taken. Could have an option for the bailiffs to teleport to the location the request is sent from, which they would have to confirm somehow.
Keywords "helpme" and "urgent" are also taken already, those summon staff. Maybe they could be extended to summon bailiffs instead?

Public farm

Unfortunately if we add a mechanic in Haven, we also need to offer it to any other city. So far public farm griefers fall into one of those categories:

Person thought its automatic refill, needs to be told once and obeys the rules then. -> Documentation problem.
Person doesn't respond to chat. Either too young, doesn't know english, doesn't know how to chat. -> 4. Guess the language
Person logs in, ravages the public farm, logs out. Not much that can be done about those, except replant.
Person is unwilling to replant. -> Public farm ban, Practice farm
Person believes they are technically unable to replant due to client restrictions like mobile. -> faq/pictograms/...

Guess the language

/guess_language NAME
Tries to guess the language of a person by client setting and IP address.

This is privacy related, especially the IP address. Once a language is determined, this could even provide a google translate link to communicate with the player in the form of https://translate.google.de/?sl=en&tl=fi&op=translate

Bailiffs need to be able to ban and unban people from public areas.

Looks like we need to have a list of areas bailiffs are allowed to ban from and add a specialized command?

"Why am I in jail?" Sounds good. Unfortunately when people are sent to jail, they can't read posters or books. They could receive mail, but that's a far less intuitive mechanic than a poster.

What could we write on such a poster/mail/book/DM?

"Please remain calm. You are in jail. You cannot die here.

Prepare to be contacted by a bailiff or staff."

Practice farm

Sounds like a fun and non-intrusive teaching mechanic. We could use the same code as in the jail command, to bring them back to the place should they wander off or teleport home, place them in a channel to explain how things are done and have signposts around saying what happened and what's expected. Sounds more like a tutorial thing, I probably shouldn't name the command /gulag ... how about /farm_tutorial NAME ?

Chat control

Seems like people have different thresholds as to when something is perceived as "disturbing chat". My rules of thumb are

If someone repeatedly writes plain nonsense and this is obviously not part of a conversation between players. Example: <Player> astfgl
If someone repeatedly uses excessive or full caps or characters in a message. Example <Player> I AM EATING MY SANDWICH or <Player> aiiiiiiiiaiiiiiiiiaiiiiii
I do not call to order if caps are occasionally used to emphasize a word, occur once in a while due to what happened to them ingame or it is meant as a shout. Examples: <Player> I REALLY do like sandwiches! or <Player> ALERT! SCOUTS BEHIND US!!
If someone uses an occasional, non-directed or even funny swearword I don't mind. <Player> That Oerrkki beat my arse!
As soon as insults are directed at other players, are excessive or plain vulgar, I call to order: "language!". If that doesn't help either, I move them to a different channel and give them the "kids play here. Be excellent to them as well" talk. If that doesn't help either, they may get kicked or even banned, with a message where to appeal and what they did wrong.

Your thresholds may be vastly different. IMO it is ok to tell someone you don't like their chat behaviour, even if Alias would would have let it slide and vice versa.

Offender documentation

So that not one staff jails someone and the other lets the same person go five minutes after, we need some

The jail command needs a reason, those reasons need to be accessible somehow to staff and bailiffs. Could be a non-public list in yl_settings ordered by date and jailer and go to extended /info when this command is called by a staff or bailiff.

Make known to bailiffs when someone is new.

Bailiffs need a way to know when a player is new. It would also be cool to know but also a privacy issue if the person has alt accounts. Staff already gets such a message. Maybe we should make it available to bailiffs as well.

Not everyone's idea of "excellent" is the same. So far, my takeaways from this issue: Bailiff manual is a very good idea. Let's gather topics this bailiff manual should cover? - When do I move channel, jail or kick? - When do I call in staff instead? - When do I report? - What do I do in case of ... ? - What happens if I'm wrong? - How do I deal with unresponsive people? - How do I deal with people who do not speak my language? More proposals welcome :) Also some new commands and mechanics available to bailiffs need to be made. Some proposals: 1. Display chatlog of a person to bailiffs ``` /chatlog NAME Shows the recent (15 to 20 lines) chat history of NAME in a formspec, where it can be copied out from. ``` 2. Let players specifically ask bailiffs for help ``` /assist MESSAGE Sends MESSAGE in elevated colour to all connected bailiffs, invisible for others. ``` A proper keyword needs to be found. "assist" comes to mind, unfortunately "help" is already taken. Could have an option for the bailiffs to teleport to the location the request is sent from, which they would have to confirm somehow. Keywords "helpme" and "urgent" are also taken already, those summon staff. Maybe they could be extended to summon bailiffs instead? 3. Public farm Unfortunately if we add a mechanic in Haven, we also need to offer it to any other city. So far public farm griefers fall into one of those categories: - Person thought its automatic refill, needs to be told once and obeys the rules then. -> Documentation problem. - Person doesn't respond to chat. Either too young, doesn't know english, doesn't know how to chat. -> 4. Guess the language - Person logs in, ravages the public farm, logs out. Not much that can be done about those, except replant. - Person is unwilling to replant. -> Public farm ban, Practice farm - Person believes they are technically unable to replant due to client restrictions like mobile. -> faq/pictograms/... 4. Guess the language ``` /guess_language NAME Tries to guess the language of a person by client setting and IP address. ``` This is privacy related, especially the IP address. Once a language is determined, this could even provide a google translate link to communicate with the player in the form of https://translate.google.de/?sl=en&tl=fi&op=translate 5. Bailiffs need to be able to ban and unban people from public areas. Looks like we need to have a list of areas bailiffs are allowed to ban from and add a specialized command? 6. "Why am I in jail?" Sounds good. Unfortunately when people are sent to jail, they can't read posters or books. They could receive mail, but that's a far less intuitive mechanic than a poster. What could we write on such a poster/mail/book/DM? "Please remain calm. You are in jail. You cannot die here. Prepare to be contacted by a bailiff or staff." 7. Practice farm Sounds like a fun and non-intrusive teaching mechanic. We could use the same code as in the jail command, to bring them back to the place should they wander off or teleport home, place them in a channel to explain how things are done and have signposts around saying what happened and what's expected. Sounds more like a tutorial thing, I probably shouldn't name the command /gulag ... how about /farm_tutorial NAME ? 8. Chat control Seems like people have different thresholds as to when something is perceived as "disturbing chat". My rules of thumb are - If someone repeatedly writes plain nonsense and this is obviously not part of a conversation between players. Example: `<Player> astfgl` - If someone repeatedly uses excessive or full caps or characters in a message. Example `<Player> I AM EATING MY SANDWICH` or `<Player> aiiiiiiiiaiiiiiiiiaiiiiii` - I do not call to order if caps are occasionally used to emphasize a word, occur once in a while due to what happened to them ingame or it is meant as a shout. Examples: `<Player> I REALLY do like sandwiches!` or `<Player> ALERT! SCOUTS BEHIND US!!` - If someone uses an occasional, non-directed or even funny swearword I don't mind. `<Player> That Oerrkki beat my arse!` - As soon as insults are directed at other players, are excessive or plain vulgar, I call to order: "language!". If that doesn't help either, I move them to a different channel and give them the "kids play here. Be excellent to them as well" talk. If that doesn't help either, they may get kicked or even banned, with a message where to appeal and what they did wrong. Your thresholds may be vastly different. IMO it is ok to tell someone you don't like their chat behaviour, even if Alias would would have let it slide and vice versa. 9. Offender documentation So that not one staff jails someone and the other lets the same person go five minutes after, we need some The jail command needs a reason, those reasons need to be accessible somehow to staff and bailiffs. Could be a non-public list in yl_settings ordered by date and jailer and go to extended /info when this command is called by a staff or bailiff. 10. Make known to bailiffs when someone is new. Bailiffs need a way to know when a player is new. It would also be cool to know but also a privacy issue if the person has alt accounts. Staff already gets such a message. Maybe we should make it available to bailiffs as well.

👍 3

Bla commented

2023-01-07 17:58:18 +00:00

Display chatlog of a person to bailiffs

/chatlog NAME
Shows the recent (15 to 20 lines) chat history of NAME in a formspec, where it can be copied out from.

If that goes beyond public chat and includes private/direct messages hell no.
Nice idea for staff because they are longterm and you already trust them enough with other powers but not short term bailiffs that change every month.

> 1. Display chatlog of a person to bailiffs > > ``` > /chatlog NAME > Shows the recent (15 to 20 lines) chat history of NAME in a formspec, where it can be copied out from. > ``` If that goes beyond public chat and includes private/direct messages hell no. Nice idea for staff because they are longterm and you already trust them enough with other powers but not short term bailiffs that change every month.

👍 2

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-01-07 18:21:54 +00:00

For clarification: This only includes public main chat, because that's the chat bailiffs work with. Even staff cannot see DMs or chatchannels, they have no business there.

However, since the main chat isn't actually secret, this could be a feature for others as well who want to copy a longer message of themselves or others.

For clarification: This only includes public main chat, because that's the chat bailiffs work with. Even staff cannot see DMs or chatchannels, they have no business there. However, since the main chat isn't actually secret, this could be a feature for others as well who want to copy a longer message of themselves or others.

👍 4

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-02-08 18:45:35 +00:00

Here's a discussion what to do with the outcome:

your-land/wiki#1

Here's a discussion what to do with the outcome: https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/wiki/issues/1

daydream commented

2023-03-19 15:47:39 +00:00

The more Bailiffs can work on player issues (player relations, player quests, player orientation, player training, player questions - even working out how players should grow in their team endeavors, such as moving miocene) All these things Bailiffs could manage.

This would allow staff to plan, code, run the server efficiently - do the kinds of things staff should be doing to keep the game and server fun and running smoothly. But we don't have bailiffs on 24/7 and senior staff is on pretty much all day every day - so ends up trying to do both and of course the technical side suffers because player happiness is more immediate - or certainly feels that way to the player that wants something at any given moment, be it information or assistance, etc.

Eventually the idea in my mind would be Bailiffs can take care of player needs and staff can take care of server needs. A bit of a pipedream but everyone needs a goal. Any feature requests that will help Bailiffs do that should be considered ASAP - while maintaining top level information that involves player privacy would not be included, much else could be.

The more Bailiffs can work on player issues (player relations, player quests, player orientation, player training, player questions - even working out how players should grow in their team endeavors, such as moving miocene) All these things Bailiffs could manage. This would allow staff to plan, code, run the server efficiently - do the kinds of things staff should be doing to keep the game and server fun and running smoothly. But we don't have bailiffs on 24/7 and senior staff is on pretty much all day every day - so ends up trying to do both and of course the technical side suffers because player happiness is more immediate - or certainly feels that way to the player that wants something at any given moment, be it information or assistance, etc. Eventually the idea in my mind would be Bailiffs can take care of player needs and staff can take care of server needs. A bit of a pipedream but everyone needs a goal. Any feature requests that will help Bailiffs do that should be considered ASAP - while maintaining top level information that involves player privacy would not be included, much else could be.

AliasAlreadyTaken referenced this issue

2023-04-20 08:18:26 +00:00

Bla reports: staff command to tag a player ... #4214

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-04-27 15:12:25 +00:00