Rethinking the bucket #1746

New Issue

flux · 2022-04-13T23:06:30Z

flux commented

2022-04-13 23:06:30 +00:00

The bucket mechanic in this minetest is a pure rip-off of minecraft. You take an empty bucket (which stack), click on a liquid source node, which disappears, and you end up w/ an unstackable "bucket of liquid". Trying to "place" that bucket results in placing the original source node. Crafting things with fluids, or moving fluids around, becomes incredibly tedious, and all sorts of bugs happen regarding whether or not to return the bucket to the player or not when crafting.

What if, instead, the bucket behaved like other tools? You'd have to "dig" liquid source nodes, and you'd end up w/ the source nodes in your inventory. "Bucket of X" would not exist. Digging a flowing liquid node would destroy it, but not pick anything up - and then it'd probably reflow again immediately.

You could then create bucket "tiers" like existing tool tiers. Wooden buckets could be used to pick up water. Steel (or something stronger?) could be used to pick up lava. Special buckets might be able to dig liquids faster.

Buckets could have durability.

Perhaps only enchanted steel buckets could dig up lava.

Another variation: a bucket that automatically freezes liquid nodes when they are picked up (water -> ice, lava -> obsidian).

Downsides:

many recipes would need to be reworked
there may be "balancing" considerations
handling existing "bucket of X" items would need to be done properly

The bucket mechanic in this minetest is a pure rip-off of minecraft. You take an empty bucket (which stack), click on a liquid source node, which disappears, and you end up w/ an unstackable "bucket of liquid". Trying to "place" that bucket results in placing the original source node. Crafting things with fluids, or moving fluids around, becomes incredibly tedious, and all sorts of bugs happen regarding whether or not to return the bucket to the player or not when crafting. What if, instead, the bucket behaved like other tools? You'd have to "dig" liquid source nodes, and you'd end up w/ the source nodes in your inventory. "Bucket of X" would not exist. Digging a flowing liquid node would destroy it, but not pick anything up - and then it'd probably reflow again immediately. You could then create bucket "tiers" like existing tool tiers. Wooden buckets could be used to pick up water. Steel (or something stronger?) could be used to pick up lava. Special buckets might be able to dig liquids faster. Buckets could have durability. Perhaps only enchanted steel buckets could dig up lava. Another variation: a bucket that automatically freezes liquid nodes when they are picked up (water -> ice, lava -> obsidian). Downsides: * many recipes would need to be reworked * there may be "balancing" considerations * handling existing "bucket of X" items would need to be done properly

flux added the

1. kind/enhancement

1. kind/balancing

4. step/want approval

labels 2022-04-13 23:06:30 +00:00

flux self-assigned this 2022-04-13 23:06:30 +00:00

Bla commented

2022-04-14 00:38:01 +00:00

The bucket mechanic in this minetest is a pure rip-off of minecraft. You take an empty bucket (which stack), click on a liquid source node, which disappears, and you end up w/ an unstackable "bucket of liquid". Trying to "place" that bucket results in placing the original source node.

Pretty sure minecraft ripped that idea straight of RL ;-)

I really like your ideas about tiers and durability but wouldnt change how buckets work because everyone just understands that but bigger containers like barrels that can hold more fluids would be nice.

> The bucket mechanic in this minetest is a pure rip-off of minecraft. You take an empty bucket (which stack), click on a liquid source node, which disappears, and you end up w/ an unstackable "bucket of liquid". Trying to "place" that bucket results in placing the original source node. Pretty sure minecraft ripped that idea straight of RL ;-) I really like your ideas about tiers and durability but wouldnt change how buckets work because everyone just understands that but bigger containers like barrels that can hold more fluids would be nice.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2022-04-14 15:39:25 +00:00

"It's totally unrealistic to stack multiple buckets of water!"
"Oh, sure, but its totally realistic to stack multiple cubic meters of rock"

Does this pose any danger? Can you do something with water blocks that is not possible with buckets?

To the contrary IMO, buckets are harder to detect than simple block placement.

We could alias every filled bucket to their respective source, but that would lose people the bucket.

Is it more generic than before? Yes. With this system we can pick up ANY liquid.

Problems I see:

Some recipes demand filled buckets. We'd have to rework all of them
Some mods rely on the filled bucket mechanic
This creates an item that looks the same, feels the same and crafts the same as the well-known bucket, but behaves differently. That's what I tried to avoid.

"It's totally unrealistic to stack multiple buckets of water!" "Oh, sure, but its totally realistic to stack multiple cubic meters of rock" Does this pose any danger? Can you do something with water blocks that is not possible with buckets? To the contrary IMO, buckets are harder to detect than simple block placement. We could alias every filled bucket to their respective source, but that would lose people the bucket. Is it more generic than before? Yes. With this system we can pick up ANY liquid. Problems I see: - Some recipes demand filled buckets. We'd have to rework all of them - Some mods rely on the filled bucket mechanic - This creates an item that looks the same, feels the same and crafts the same as the well-known bucket, but behaves differently. That's what I tried to avoid.

flux commented

2022-04-14 16:48:25 +00:00

Is it more generic than before? Yes. With this system we can pick up ANY liquid.

not true, if the liquid doesn't belong to the appropriate group, just as not all nodes can be broken w/ a pickaxe.

Some mods rely on the filled bucket mechanic

cow milk comes to mind. looks like the other examples are "cactus pulp" from ethereal and bucket of chicken legs from petz, which are foods and could remain as they are. is there something i'm missing?

> Is it more generic than before? Yes. With this system we can pick up ANY liquid. not true, if the liquid doesn't belong to the appropriate group, just as not all nodes can be broken w/ a pickaxe. > Some mods rely on the filled bucket mechanic cow milk comes to mind. looks like the other examples are "cactus pulp" from ethereal and bucket of chicken legs from petz, which are foods and could remain as they are. is there something i'm missing?

flux commented

2022-05-15 00:26:03 +00:00

I took a tentative stab at this:

https://github.com/fluxionary/minetest-bucket_redo

I took a tentative stab at this: https://github.com/fluxionary/minetest-bucket_redo

flux referenced this issue

2022-05-17 23:58:12 +00:00

rheo reports: get rid of flowing liquid - it ... #1931

flux added this to the flux's TODO list project 2022-07-02 20:39:09 +00:00

flux referenced this issue

2022-10-21 18:01:57 +00:00

Suggest recipe: bucket:bucket_empty + default:obsidian -> bucket:bucket_lava #2897