create a nether water monster to discourage players from placing water in the nether #5758

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flux · 2023-12-20T04:45:38Z

flux commented

2023-12-20 04:45:38 +00:00

Originally posted by @flux in #5739 (comment)

if we don't prevent players from placing water in the nether in order to get around the difficulty of the nether, we need a really nasty nether water monster

_Originally posted by @flux in https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/bugtracker/issues/5739#issuecomment-68941_ if we don't prevent players from placing water in the nether in order to get around the difficulty of the nether, we need a really nasty nether water monster

flux added the

1. kind/enhancement

label 2023-12-20 04:45:55 +00:00

flux commented

2023-12-20 04:46:32 +00:00

if i ever actually get around to implementing this, i'll steal the art from some mob that already exists

flux commented

2023-12-20 04:51:23 +00:00

i'm imagining something that spawns in water source/flowing in the nether, but which can survive if it leaves that environment. it should be incredibly aggressive, and appear anywhere it can fit.

Jammy commented

2023-12-20 08:15:49 +00:00

That'd be controversial since it's already very hard to survive in nether. You should not try to stop people from surviving.

sixer commented

2023-12-20 10:15:53 +00:00

i'm imagining something that spawns in water source/flowing in the nether

I think it should spawn only in at least reasonably sized water body (so it won't spawn in a small puddle)

incredibly aggressive

That is usual nether standard

I guess some large octupus/kraken-like monster may fit well. It could survive outside, but would prefer to return to water or keep close to it (or, if it would have long tentacles, do not leave the water, but the tentacles would be able to reach quite far outside of the water body, so it still would be dangerous to keep close to the shore). Maybe even if could despawn if it is far from any water for a long time.

> i'm imagining something that spawns in water source/flowing in the nether I think it should spawn only in at least reasonably sized water body (so it won't spawn in a small puddle) > incredibly aggressive That is usual nether standard I guess some large octupus/kraken-like monster may fit well. It could survive outside, but would prefer to return to water or keep close to it (or, if it would have long tentacles, do not leave the water, but the tentacles would be able to reach quite far outside of the water body, so it still would be dangerous to keep close to the shore). Maybe even if could despawn if it is far from any water for a long time.

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

1. kind/balancing

label 2023-12-20 11:03:21 +00:00

AzelfYL commented

2023-12-20 11:19:38 +00:00

I think it would be an interesting idea, and if my idea from #5739 is taken perhaps it could be exclusively spawning in the darkened water nodes that spawn. I do think it shouldn't be too hard to kill, just really annoying (like say the vex) because if it's like iron golems/whips suddenly sections of the nether become basically impassible (especially because the Miner's Den portal opens up right next to a large amount of water)

Also I think that while they should still be able to survive outside of water, I think they should be weaker outside of it.

I think it would be an interesting idea, and if my idea from https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/bugtracker/issues/5739 is taken perhaps it could be exclusively spawning in the darkened water nodes that spawn. I do think it shouldn't be too hard to kill, just really annoying (like say the vex) because if it's like iron golems/whips suddenly sections of the nether become basically impassible (especially because the Miner's Den portal opens up right next to a large amount of water) Also I think that while they should still be able to survive outside of water, I think they should be weaker outside of it.

Boot commented

2023-12-20 22:07:49 +00:00

The nether is tough. And of course, you can always make it harder and harder. For example, with even more monsters. However, newcomers then have little chance for a halfway fair entry into this area. Before they can even learn anything, they are done and done and done. The nether walkers of yesteryear, on the other hand, have full chests when the nether was much simpler.

We should have an entry zone into the nether that gives newcomers a fair chance to gradually overcome the dangers of the nether. That's how it is in the normal depth. There, the Balrog does not come immediately at the beginning of the descent. And just as the loot gets better with depth, so it should be in the nether: the more dangerous, the more rewarding loot you should be able to obtain.

This would be remotely like how you can set the difficulty level in some games: easy (then stay on the surface), normal, hard, nightmare.

The nether is tough. And of course, you can always make it harder and harder. For example, with even more monsters. However, newcomers then have little chance for a halfway fair entry into this area. Before they can even learn anything, they are done and done and done. The nether walkers of yesteryear, on the other hand, have full chests when the nether was much simpler. We should have an entry zone into the nether that gives newcomers a fair chance to gradually overcome the dangers of the nether. That's how it is in the normal depth. There, the Balrog does not come immediately at the beginning of the descent. And just as the loot gets better with depth, so it should be in the nether: the more dangerous, the more rewarding loot you should be able to obtain. This would be remotely like how you can set the difficulty level in some games: easy (then stay on the surface), normal, hard, nightmare.

👍 2

sixer commented

2023-12-20 23:54:02 +00:00

This might be doable ... nether now ends at 25000, so it could be extended perhaps to 22000, with the nether becoming more brutal as you venture below 25000. Portals would open only from 25000 above (same as now), so it would be both hard to get there (you have to dig/walk below) and hard to survive there (hard monsters spawning and perhaps some other rules or mapgen may be also different).

AzelfYL commented

2023-12-21 12:57:15 +00:00

We should have an entry zone into the nether that gives newcomers a fair chance to gradually overcome the dangers of the nether. That's how it is in the normal depth. There, the Balrog does not come immediately at the beginning of the descent. And just as the loot gets better with depth, so it should be in the nether: the more dangerous, the more rewarding loot you should be able to obtain.

I have ideas for this, but I think at this point it should be separated into its own issue,

> We should have an entry zone into the nether that gives newcomers a fair chance to gradually overcome the dangers of the nether. That's how it is in the normal depth. There, the Balrog does not come immediately at the beginning of the descent. And just as the loot gets better with depth, so it should be in the nether: the more dangerous, the more rewarding loot you should be able to obtain. I have ideas for this, but I think at this point it should be separated into its own issue,

👍 2

JeCel commented

2023-12-24 18:09:16 +00:00

Since water is not natural to the nether I think some kind of mutation of an already existing nether mob would be quite fitting. Maybe it would even make sense if those then only spawn in water that has been there for a while? Doesn't have to be that long, maybe about half an hour.
The idea basically is that when someone comes and places water the mobs try to adjust to that environmental change for whatever reason (want to get rid of us; their usual living environment becomes too small etc.) thus why it would make sense to make them not instantly spawn in placed water

Since water is not natural to the nether I think some kind of mutation of an already existing nether mob would be quite fitting. Maybe it would even make sense if those then only spawn in water that has been there for a while? Doesn't have to be that long, maybe about half an hour. The idea basically is that when someone comes and places water the mobs try to adjust to that environmental change for whatever reason (want to get rid of us; their usual living environment becomes too small etc.) thus why it would make sense to make them not instantly spawn in placed water

flux changed title from ~~create a nether water monster tab to discourage players from placing water in the nether~~ to create a nether water monster to discourage players from placing water in the nether

2023-12-25 00:23:12 +00:00

flux commented

2023-12-25 01:42:32 +00:00

i'm thinking: waterbugs. they're tiny, they spawn in swarms, they swim much faster than they move out of the water. a single bite shouldn't do too much damage, but it should ignore armor. they have little HP individually, but they're hard to hit because of their size. i'm also imagining that they don't collide with other objects, so that players don't get fenced in by their collision boxes, and can run away.

AzelfYL commented

2023-12-25 04:47:09 +00:00

I think fighting these waterbugs should be similar to fighting vexes, but in water, and they should probably only spawn in sections of water larger than a certain size (i think having these bugs spawn in small 1x1 puddles is a bit unfair). I think probably in collections of water larger than 6 nodes in size?

Also if Boot's idea above is taken, make it only spawn below certain y-levels in the nether.

I think fighting these waterbugs should be similar to fighting vexes, but in water, and they should probably only spawn in sections of water larger than a certain size (i think having these bugs spawn in small 1x1 puddles is a bit unfair). I think probably in collections of water larger than 6 nodes in size? Also if Boot's idea above is taken, make it only spawn below certain y-levels in the nether.

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