AliasAlreadyTaken reports: Builders Flight review ... #5025

New Issue

yourland-report · 2023-07-29T10:25:38Z

yourland-report commented

2023-07-29 10:25:38 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken reports a bug:

Builders Flight review

Player position:

{
	y = 18,
	z = 1174.3360595703,
	x = 1979.3000488281
}

Player look:

{
	y = -0.095498286187649,
	z = 0.014419774524868,
	x = 0.99532514810562
}

Player information:

{
	state = "Active",
	max_rtt = 24.177000045776,
	ip_version = 6,
	minor = 6,
	avg_rtt = 0.019999999552965,
	min_jitter = 0,
	max_jitter = 23.723001480103,
	avg_jitter = 0.0010000001639128,
	connection_uptime = 6047,
	formspec_version = 6,
	patch = 0,
	protocol_version = 41,
	min_rtt = 0.018999999389052,
	major = 5,
	version_string = "5.6.0",
	lang_code = "de",
	serialization_version = 29
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		digged_nodes = "140139",
		placed_nodes = "181186",
		died = "1590",
		crafted = "4781",
		["arena_lib_editor.spawner_ID"] = "0",
		szutil_watch = "return {}",
		team = "STAFF",
		bitten = "0",
		xp_redo_hud_color = "0xFFFF00",
		["petz:werewolf"] = "0",
		["petz:lycanthropy"] = "0",
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:boots_crystal\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"\"}",
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"z\"] = 1710, [\"x\"] = 2032, [\"y\"] = 34}, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1683839371, [\"last_heal\"] = 1683837139}",
		punch_count = "64460",
		inflicted_damage = "2959308",
		["stamina:level"] = "0",
		["petz:old_override_table"] = "return {[\"speed\"] = 1, [\"new_move\"] = true, [\"sneak_glitch\"] = false, [\"gravity\"] = 1, [\"jump\"] = 1, [\"sneak\"] = true}",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no",
		arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "60.5",
		["sethome:home"] = "(1983.4349365234,17.5,1183.5950927734)",
		["petz:werewolf_vignette_id"] = "19",
		arenalib_watchID = "0",
		["arena_lib_editor.team_ID"] = "0",
		["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\"}",
		repellant = "0",
		hud_state = "on",
		["arena_lib_editor.players_number"] = "0",
		["ethereal:fly_timer"] = "-99",
		["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.67421e+09",
		["ocean_build.forbidden"] = "true",
		["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "12",
		partychat = "party",
		["petz:werewolf_clan_idx"] = "4",
		lagometer = "1",
		yl_audio_state = "off",
		yl_commons_thankyou = "1127",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1690620315",
		xp = "0",
		["signslib:pos"] = "(1975,19,1170)",
		played_time = "86681556"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = 6HHWQnzUVRJD402z5vjl5amxjaA31yDz

Profiler save:

profile-20230729T102538.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 1d 14h 28min 16s | max lag: 1.92s | clients (22/52): 9T9, AliasAlreadyTaken, Aliza, Azelf, Bailiff, Bingo, Chache, EvilRevised, HawaiiBunny, JeCel, LadyPixels, LilyBelle, Murmel, Penelopee, Qichta29, Ravise, Service, Shadow, Sysmatic, TheDan, Wanchor, yowyowming

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz 1979 18 1174

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction 6HHWQnzUVRJD402z5vjl5amxjaA31yDz D2691E 1979 18 1174

AliasAlreadyTaken reports a bug: > Builders Flight review Player position: ``` { y = 18, z = 1174.3360595703, x = 1979.3000488281 } ``` Player look: ``` { y = -0.095498286187649, z = 0.014419774524868, x = 0.99532514810562 } ``` Player information: ``` { state = "Active", max_rtt = 24.177000045776, ip_version = 6, minor = 6, avg_rtt = 0.019999999552965, min_jitter = 0, max_jitter = 23.723001480103, avg_jitter = 0.0010000001639128, connection_uptime = 6047, formspec_version = 6, patch = 0, protocol_version = 41, min_rtt = 0.018999999389052, major = 5, version_string = "5.6.0", lang_code = "de", serialization_version = 29 } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { digged_nodes = "140139", placed_nodes = "181186", died = "1590", crafted = "4781", ["arena_lib_editor.spawner_ID"] = "0", szutil_watch = "return {}", team = "STAFF", bitten = "0", xp_redo_hud_color = "0xFFFF00", ["petz:werewolf"] = "0", ["petz:lycanthropy"] = "0", ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:boots_crystal\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"\"}", yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"z\"] = 1710, [\"x\"] = 2032, [\"y\"] = 34}, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1683839371, [\"last_heal\"] = 1683837139}", punch_count = "64460", inflicted_damage = "2959308", ["stamina:level"] = "0", ["petz:old_override_table"] = "return {[\"speed\"] = 1, [\"new_move\"] = true, [\"sneak_glitch\"] = false, [\"gravity\"] = 1, [\"jump\"] = 1, [\"sneak\"] = true}", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no", arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "60.5", ["sethome:home"] = "(1983.4349365234,17.5,1183.5950927734)", ["petz:werewolf_vignette_id"] = "19", arenalib_watchID = "0", ["arena_lib_editor.team_ID"] = "0", ["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\"}", repellant = "0", hud_state = "on", ["arena_lib_editor.players_number"] = "0", ["ethereal:fly_timer"] = "-99", ["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.67421e+09", ["ocean_build.forbidden"] = "true", ["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "12", partychat = "party", ["petz:werewolf_clan_idx"] = "4", lagometer = "1", yl_audio_state = "off", yl_commons_thankyou = "1127", yl_commons_player_joined = "1690620315", xp = "0", ["signslib:pos"] = "(1975,19,1170)", played_time = "86681556" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = 6HHWQnzUVRJD402z5vjl5amxjaA31yDz ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20230729T102538.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 1d 14h 28min 16s | max lag: 1.92s | clients (22/52): 9T9, AliasAlreadyTaken, Aliza, Azelf, Bailiff, Bingo, Chache, EvilRevised, HawaiiBunny, JeCel, LadyPixels, LilyBelle, Murmel, Penelopee, Qichta29, Ravise, Service, Shadow, Sysmatic, TheDan, Wanchor, yowyowming ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz 1979 18 1174 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction 6HHWQnzUVRJD402z5vjl5amxjaA31yDz D2691E 1979 18 1174 ```

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2023-07-29 10:25:38 +00:00

JeCel commented

2023-07-29 10:31:30 +00:00

Alright here it comes :d

Since my testing period for Builder's Flight is over, I want to talk about everything I noticed and make some suggestions accordingly.

Overall Builder's Flight did it's job pretty well but I think there is still a lot that can be done to enhance the experience.
First thing: I think it would be a good idea if upon first time using it a formspec would appear explaining the basics about Builder's Flight and how to access the Builder's Flight Hud Timer. I had to search through the help center to find the command not being even sure that such a command exists. But luckily I found it.

One thing that really annoyed me is the yl_statuseffects notification. I do understand why it's there, but I rarely needed it and most of the time it only spammed my chat when walking quickly between area borders. So I have two proposals for that:
1. Add an indication to the hud instead. I think people would get used to it pretty
quickly and as I said, most of the time, at least in my case, that message isn't very
useful. So knowing where to look when you actually need it should be fine.
2. Make the message only appear when flight is actually activated. Right now you get the
message even when it's not activated, which in my opinion is pretty unnecessary.
Also, regarding that: There was one incident where I couldn't use flight in my city anymore because the city area was replaced by a bigger one. But I didn't know that flight can only be used in areas that are at least one hour old (Alias clarified that upon me asking), so that is one thing that could and should also be mentioned in such a formspec I proposed. But the weirder thing was, that in one spot I still could fly and after some time whosit and I figured it was an area I created somewhere below and that I could fly because of the 5 nodes or so extension that fly gets around area borders. Now, whosit had the idea that the yl_statuseffects notification could indicate which area is being entered that causes fly, so that such confusion doesn't happen in the future anymore. That could also simply be added to the hud.

Further I think that just a message is not enough to warn someone that they are about to fall. Messages can be easily ignored if to occupied with what you are doing. Also some people might have the chat hidden. So I would suggest that a sound should be added. But not so intruisive as the announcement sound, just enough to notice that something is about to happen.
If you won't switch the messages to the hud however, maybe also consider making the notifications colored (in a color that isn't used yet).

And one minor thing: Please make the first letter of the messages Capital letters (so 'You feel heavy...' instead of 'you feel heavy...' etc.), it just looks better and is more consistent with other things.

Another thing that I found a bit irritating are the wings that appear below you when flying. The texture definitely looks nice, but they can be in the way when building. Like, sometimes I tried to get a view from above but couldn't properly because those wings kept appearing in my view. So maybe make them only visible for others but not yourself? Or at least add a toggle so that one can decide wether they can see them on themselves or not.
Also, the wings seem to appear when normaly jumping, using ladders or ropes.

Now my biggest proposal:
The testing period I got was three days. Which is a lot of time, and at the beginning I used the time to get work done that needed flight. But after some hours I reached a point where I didn't want to build something for which I would need flight. I wanted to do something else but I also knew that my flight still would get used up if I joined. So I decided to not join and only do so if I am in the mood for flight projects. At some point I didn't follow this approach anymore and joined when I wanted to, but that caused me to at least lose one day's worth of flight. So my suggestion is to make the flight time only go down when flight is actually activated. Or: create an equipabble item.
I thought of something like this: An amulet that is player-bound and can be infused with the magic of flying by the priest. That magic slowly fades when using the amulet but only when using it aka when it's equipped. Equipping could be done through the sixth armor slot. The amulet could also generally work as something that holds magical effects, if you plan to add more in the future. So the idea would be an amulet that can be infused with magical effects but only one at a time, to make it not too powerful.

Lastly, it would be great if at the ending period something more would happen than just the usual 'you feel heavy...' notification and dropping to the ground. Someone who doesn't have the hud activated wouldn't even realise at the beginning why they suddenly can't fly anymore.
Here again maybe a sound or a colored text would be appropriate. Maybe a countdown in red in the hud and a formspec at the end saying "Your builder's flight has ended." Those are just random suggestions but maybe they can help to get more ideas.

Ah, and almost forgot: There should be a rule regarding builder's flight and voice attacks aka do you want to allow that or not? If not I want to suggest that damage that the player causes get's nullified when being in flight mode. One could still scout around but at least would have to get to ground to fight. Another thing could be that the negativity of the troops affects the flight magic and you slowly drop to the ground and can't fly again until the troops are all gone (one would have to set a radius of effect for that). I think both options can be worked out nicely lore wise, especially with the equipped item. Considering that a priest granted you the power one could either say that as the magic is heavenly it doesn't allow you to harm others (for the first option) or the other explantion with the negative auras.

Alright here it comes :d Since my testing period for Builder's Flight is over, I want to talk about everything I noticed and make some suggestions accordingly. Overall Builder's Flight did it's job pretty well but I think there is still a lot that can be done to enhance the experience. First thing: I think it would be a good idea if upon first time using it a formspec would appear explaining the basics about Builder's Flight and how to access the Builder's Flight Hud Timer. I had to search through the help center to find the command not being even sure that such a command exists. But luckily I found it. One thing that really annoyed me is the yl_statuseffects notification. I do understand why it's there, but I rarely needed it and most of the time it only spammed my chat when walking quickly between area borders. So I have two proposals for that: 1. Add an indication to the hud instead. I think people would get used to it pretty quickly and as I said, most of the time, at least in my case, that message isn't very useful. So knowing where to look when you actually need it should be fine. 2. Make the message only appear when flight is actually activated. Right now you get the message even when it's not activated, which in my opinion is pretty unnecessary. Also, regarding that: There was one incident where I couldn't use flight in my city anymore because the city area was replaced by a bigger one. But I didn't know that flight can only be used in areas that are at least one hour old (Alias clarified that upon me asking), so that is one thing that could and should also be mentioned in such a formspec I proposed. But the weirder thing was, that in one spot I still could fly and after some time whosit and I figured it was an area I created somewhere below and that I could fly because of the 5 nodes or so extension that fly gets around area borders. Now, whosit had the idea that the yl_statuseffects notification could indicate which area is being entered that causes fly, so that such confusion doesn't happen in the future anymore. That could also simply be added to the hud. Further I think that just a message is not enough to warn someone that they are about to fall. Messages can be easily ignored if to occupied with what you are doing. Also some people might have the chat hidden. So I would suggest that a sound should be added. But not so intruisive as the announcement sound, just enough to notice that something is about to happen. If you won't switch the messages to the hud however, maybe also consider making the notifications colored (in a color that isn't used yet). And one minor thing: Please make the first letter of the messages Capital letters (so 'You feel heavy...' instead of 'you feel heavy...' etc.), it just looks better and is more consistent with other things. Another thing that I found a bit irritating are the wings that appear below you when flying. The texture definitely looks nice, but they can be in the way when building. Like, sometimes I tried to get a view from above but couldn't properly because those wings kept appearing in my view. So maybe make them only visible for others but not yourself? Or at least add a toggle so that one can decide wether they can see them on themselves or not. Also, the wings seem to appear when normaly jumping, using ladders or ropes. Now my biggest proposal: The testing period I got was three days. Which is a lot of time, and at the beginning I used the time to get work done that needed flight. But after some hours I reached a point where I didn't want to build something for which I would need flight. I wanted to do something else but I also knew that my flight still would get used up if I joined. So I decided to not join and only do so if I am in the mood for flight projects. At some point I didn't follow this approach anymore and joined when I wanted to, but that caused me to at least lose one day's worth of flight. So my suggestion is to make the flight time only go down when flight is actually activated. Or: create an equipabble item. I thought of something like this: An amulet that is player-bound and can be infused with the magic of flying by the priest. That magic slowly fades when using the amulet but only when using it aka when it's equipped. Equipping could be done through the sixth armor slot. The amulet could also generally work as something that holds magical effects, if you plan to add more in the future. So the idea would be an amulet that can be infused with magical effects but only one at a time, to make it not too powerful. Lastly, it would be great if at the ending period something more would happen than just the usual 'you feel heavy...' notification and dropping to the ground. Someone who doesn't have the hud activated wouldn't even realise at the beginning why they suddenly can't fly anymore. Here again maybe a sound or a colored text would be appropriate. Maybe a countdown in red in the hud and a formspec at the end saying "Your builder's flight has ended." Those are just random suggestions but maybe they can help to get more ideas. Ah, and almost forgot: There should be a rule regarding builder's flight and voice attacks aka do you want to allow that or not? If not I want to suggest that damage that the player causes get's nullified when being in flight mode. One could still scout around but at least would have to get to ground to fight. Another thing could be that the negativity of the troops affects the flight magic and you slowly drop to the ground and can't fly again until the troops are all gone (one would have to set a radius of effect for that). I think both options can be worked out nicely lore wise, especially with the equipped item. Considering that a priest granted you the power one could either say that as the magic is heavenly it doesn't allow you to harm others (for the first option) or the other explantion with the negative auras.

👍 1

DragonWrangler commented

2023-07-29 13:39:17 +00:00

ok so I only have 2 suggestions. 1 I think you should make some colored chat message when players go outside of their areas, yes they might ignore it, but there is always that risk. And 2 I think you should reduce the grace period for flying to 3-4 nodes. 7 seems like a lot, I mean it is for flight in your areas so you're getting 7 extra nodes of flight in each direction.

Sokomine commented

2023-07-29 18:26:10 +00:00

Regarding nullifying attacks when in flight mode: Doesn't work as we're not the only ones flying around. Ghosts are a pest. They need to be fended off even when you fly.

JeCel commented

2023-07-29 18:58:55 +00:00

Then make ghosts an exception

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

1. kind/enhancement

4. step/discussion

labels 2023-07-29 22:05:19 +00:00

flux commented

2023-07-29 22:55:22 +00:00

I think it would be a good idea if upon first time using it a formspec would appear explaining the basics about Builder's Flight

+1

Add an indication to the hud instead.

i dunno. the hud is already pretty crowded, and will get more crowded w/ the 1.4 classes and abilities stuff. i'd prefer to do something like put a timeout on the chat alert so that it doesn't get spammy if you're going in/out of an area.

Make the message only appear when flight is actually activated.

this is unfortunately technically impossible, because flight is actually a client-side thing. the server doesn't know whether you've got flight enabled.

I would suggest that a sound should be added

seems reasonable. i'll have to dig up something appropriate.

If you won't switch the messages to the hud however, maybe also consider making the notifications colored

i like this suggestion - perhaps the HUD would be blue when flight is active, and red when it is not. it would perhaps be too subtle an indication

the yl_statuseffects notification could indicate which area is being entered that causes fly

the eventual plan was to create particle effects at the edge of areas you can fly in, if you're close to the edge. (there would need to be a command to toggle this of course).

add a toggle so that one can decide whether they can see them on themselves or not

+1 on adding a toggle for the particle effects. however, keep in mind that the particle effects are mostly for other players, so they can see that you're using builders flight and not hacking.

as for a lot of the other stuff jecel wrote, that depends a lot on alias and balancing considerations.

I think you should make some colored chat message when players go outside of their areas

it currently does do a chat message, but +1 for making it colored.

I think you should reduce the grace period for flying to 3-4 nodes. 7 seems like a lot

it's currently set to 5

> I think it would be a good idea if upon first time using it a formspec would appear explaining the basics about Builder's Flight +1 > 1. Add an indication to the hud instead. i dunno. the hud is already pretty crowded, and will get more crowded w/ the 1.4 classes and abilities stuff. i'd prefer to do something like put a timeout on the chat alert so that it doesn't get spammy if you're going in/out of an area. > 2. Make the message only appear when flight is actually activated. this is unfortunately technically impossible, because flight is actually a client-side thing. the server doesn't know whether you've got flight enabled. > I would suggest that a sound should be added seems reasonable. i'll have to dig up something appropriate. > If you won't switch the messages to the hud however, maybe also consider making the notifications colored i like this suggestion - perhaps the HUD would be blue when flight is active, and red when it is not. it would perhaps be too subtle an indication > the yl_statuseffects notification could indicate which area is being entered that causes fly the eventual plan was to create particle effects at the edge of areas you can fly in, if you're close to the edge. (there would need to be a command to toggle this of course). > add a toggle so that one can decide whether they can see them on themselves or not +1 on adding a toggle for the particle effects. however, keep in mind that the particle effects are mostly for *other* players, so they can see that you're using builders flight and not hacking. as for a lot of the other stuff jecel wrote, that depends a lot on alias and balancing considerations. > I think you should make some colored chat message when players go outside of their areas it currently does do a chat message, but +1 for making it colored. > I think you should reduce the grace period for flying to 3-4 nodes. 7 seems like a lot it's currently set to 5

flux added this to the flux's TODO list project 2023-07-29 22:55:55 +00:00

flux self-assigned this 2023-07-29 22:56:01 +00:00

DragonWrangler commented

2023-07-29 23:39:57 +00:00

flux: strange because I was still flying 7m outside of my area.

JeCel commented

2023-07-30 10:38:32 +00:00

+1 on adding a toggle for the particle effects. however, keep in mind that the particle effects are mostly for other players, so they can see that you're using builders flight and not hacking.

Yes, I thought so, that's why I meant the toggle should be for wether one can see the particle effect on themselves or not. Though I guess it's maybe not that easy/not possible to differentiate between your view and the view of others?

> +1 on adding a toggle for the particle effects. however, keep in mind that the particle effects are mostly for *other* players, so they can see that you're using builders flight and not hacking. > Yes, I thought so, that's why I meant the toggle should be for wether one can see the particle effect on themselves or not. Though I guess it's maybe not that easy/not possible to differentiate between your view and the view of others?

flux commented

2023-07-30 18:06:42 +00:00

+1 on adding a toggle for the particle effects. however, keep in mind that the particle effects are mostly for other players, so they can see that you're using builders flight and not hacking.

Yes, I thought so, that's why I meant the toggle should be for wether one can see the particle effect on themselves or not. Though I guess it's maybe not that easy/not possible to differentiate between your view and the view of others?

it's possible to create particles that only one player can see, but it's not directly possible to create particles that only other players can see. i guess you could add a separate particle effect for every other connected player? hm. maybe.

> > +1 on adding a toggle for the particle effects. however, keep in mind that the particle effects are mostly for *other* players, so they can see that you're using builders flight and not hacking. > > > > Yes, I thought so, that's why I meant the toggle should be for wether one can see the particle effect on themselves or not. Though I guess it's maybe not that easy/not possible to differentiate between your view and the view of others? it's possible to create particles that only one player can see, but it's not directly possible to create particles that *only* other players can see. i guess you could add a separate particle effect for every other connected player? hm. maybe.

whosit commented

2023-07-30 20:50:41 +00:00

it's possible to create particles that only one player can see, but it's not directly possible to create particles that only other players can see. i guess you could add a separate particle effect for every other connected player? hm. maybe.

I didn't try it, but seems like it's possible to create spawner for everyone and then delete it for a specific player, see args of minetest.delete_particlespawner(id, player)

Maybe flying player could also see same particles but much smaller and less in quantity? (to keep it more consistent)

> it's possible to create particles that only one player can see, but it's not directly possible to create particles that *only* other players can see. i guess you could add a separate particle effect for every other connected player? hm. maybe. > I didn't try it, but seems like it's possible to create spawner for everyone and then delete it for a specific player, see args of [minetest.delete_particlespawner(id, player)](https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/28fce8aad58a10b45248c5dbc4ce8b0a534740a2/doc/lua_api.md?plain=1#L6571) Maybe flying player could also see same particles but much smaller and less in quantity? (to keep it more consistent)

flux commented

2023-07-31 21:10:56 +00:00

it's possible to create particles that only one player can see, but it's not directly possible to create particles that only other players can see. i guess you could add a separate particle effect for every other connected player? hm. maybe.

I didn't try it, but seems like it's possible to create spawner for everyone and then delete it for a specific player, see args of minetest.delete_particlespawner(id, player)

Maybe flying player could also see same particles but much smaller and less in quantity? (to keep it more consistent)

ah, that does work. i expected it wouldn't. 31d60c43bf

> > > it's possible to create particles that only one player can see, but it's not directly possible to create particles that *only* other players can see. i guess you could add a separate particle effect for every other connected player? hm. maybe. > > > > I didn't try it, but seems like it's possible to create spawner for everyone and then delete it for a specific player, see args of [minetest.delete_particlespawner(id, player)](https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/28fce8aad58a10b45248c5dbc4ce8b0a534740a2/doc/lua_api.md?plain=1#L6571) > > Maybe flying player could also see same particles but much smaller and less in quantity? (to keep it more consistent) ah, that does work. i expected it wouldn't. https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/yl_statuseffects/commit/31d60c43bf562c91625e5e8a52d4c9b89b465916

👍 1

Chache commented

2023-08-03 17:38:25 +00:00

So, if I understood it correct, right now when the effect ends, you get warnings and whatnot, and after that you just fall to the ground no matter how high you are.

I'd like to remind that another possibility was discussed: add another player-effect that makes the player fall slowly and avoid any fall damage, but not fly (something like Minecraft's "Feather Falling").

When a player's Builders' Flight effect ends, activate the "Feather Falling". As soon as the player touches ground, deactivate it.

Save all warnings, countdowns and HUD displays.

Plus, the Feather Falling effect might be used for some other thing (for example some special boots that only players of the Rogue class can wear).

Disclaimer: I don't know if what I'm suggesting is technically feasible.

So, if I understood it correct, right now when the effect ends, you get warnings and whatnot, and after that you just fall to the ground no matter how high you are. I'd like to remind that another possibility was discussed: add another player-effect that makes the player fall slowly and avoid any fall damage, but not fly (something like Minecraft's "Feather Falling"). When a player's Builders' Flight effect ends, activate the "Feather Falling". As soon as the player touches ground, deactivate it. Save all warnings, countdowns and HUD displays. Plus, the Feather Falling effect might be used for some other thing (for example some special boots that only players of the Rogue class can wear). Disclaimer: I don't know if what I'm suggesting is technically feasible.

👍 2

flux commented

2023-08-03 21:02:47 +00:00

I'd like to remind that another possibility was discussed: add another player-effect that makes the player fall slowly and avoid any fall damage, but not fly (something like Minecraft's "Feather Falling").

When a player's Builders' Flight effect ends, activate the "Feather Falling". As soon as the player touches ground, deactivate it.

Save all warnings, countdowns and HUD displays.

Plus, the Feather Falling effect might be used for some other thing (for example some special boots that only players of the Rogue class can wear).

Disclaimer: I don't know if what I'm suggesting is technically feasible.

feather falling is at least somewhat feasible, and i originally wanted to make players gently float to the ground (set speed = 0, gravity = 0, add a small negative y velocity), if they ran out of time or went outside of the protection area, but alias didn't like that idea when it was brought up previously. see discussion in #3453

> I'd like to remind that another possibility was discussed: add another player-effect that makes the player fall slowly and avoid any fall damage, but not fly (something like Minecraft's "Feather Falling"). > > When a player's Builders' Flight effect ends, activate the "Feather Falling". As soon as the player touches ground, deactivate it. > > Save all warnings, countdowns and HUD displays. > > Plus, the Feather Falling effect might be used for some other thing (for example some special boots that only players of the Rogue class can wear). > > Disclaimer: I don't know if what I'm suggesting is technically feasible. feather falling is at least somewhat feasible, and i originally wanted to make players gently float to the ground (set speed = 0, gravity = 0, add a small negative y velocity), if they ran out of time or went outside of the protection area, but alias didn't like that idea when it was brought up previously. see discussion in #3453

flux commented

2023-08-03 21:48:14 +00:00

i've created some particle effects (only visible to the flying player) at the boundary of the flight player. these can also be disabled w/ the /toggle_bf_particles command. 60f3de96a0

i've created some particle effects (only visible to the flying player) at the boundary of the flight player. these can also be disabled w/ the `/toggle_bf_particles` command. https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/yl_statuseffects/commit/60f3de96a0c5fc9372c6316f756c825c8634b7e9

flux referenced this issue

2023-08-03 21:49:27 +00:00

builders flight: you can fly too far outside the area #5033

LadyPixels commented

2023-09-06 22:01:04 +00:00

Ok, so here is my report.

I specify here, my builders flight is still on. I have 16 hours left.
At first it seemed wonderful because i was able to achieve some part on my builds that would have taken ages or maybe i would have gave up on those details because it was a titan work for me to do (and a lots of death moments too). Before having the builders flight, I was dying a lot, trying to reach some areas of my builds. Now I'm no more dying, that's a good point.

Also I've been able to build faster and to also start projects i could only dreamed of before.
Having the builders flight is really an advantage and a game changing, especially when it comes to build a city.

Now this advantage has become a disadvantage for me, on some kind.

As said i have 16 hours left on the 72 hours I initially got. I realized a bit too late, a timer could be displayed on my screen. I would have loved to get an "how to use the builders flight" before starting. Also, i lost a lot of my time gathering materials for my builds or building on the ground some part of them.

As soon as i displayed this "timer", i was able to manage my time differently. I started to log on only for building special parts of my builds. Those that required flying. It was great, I was super efficient.
Then I had to gather more materials to build a new build and the issues started for me. All the builds i planned on building included a lot of "on the ground" work. So instead of building them, i started to look for "what to build in the air". I remembered I had this project almost unfeasible without flying, so i went for it. As I needed to get around 2000 cottons, I bought some of them, grew most of them, same for the dyes. Cotton takes a lot of time to grow. I needed an "immediate" solution. My stress increased a bit more everyday. I was no more login to waste my time on waiting for this cotton to grow. I was just collecting, planting and disconnecting for 1 or 2 hours, waiting for it to grow. then login, collecting, planting and log off again

In the meantime, some cities got attacked by Voice. I usually go and help people to defend cities but due to the builders flight, my time became "precious" lately. I made a tough call, I choose not to log back to help them and I felt very bad for that. I felt ashamed actually, because this is not me.

I finished my 3rd build with the help of the builders flight. I got stress even more each time I had to do some ground work. I was pist-off to loose my time for grinding stuffs, not being able to place this timer on hold during my "on the ground" work. At this point, it really started to stress me a lot more. Even the friend i use to play with, hadn't see me in days. I guess he is no more login either. it's not fun to be in a team when the other one is no more coming. idk in the other teams of builders but i believe this can create issues between builders of a city if only one is getting it while several others needs it actually.

Now i'm no more taking time to visit other cities, i'm no more helping or supporting other players during attacks (and i feel ashamed a lot for that). If a players needs help, i'm no more rushing to help. I'm no more login to build something else in the meantime too. I'm no more having fun or playing as usual because i know i'm gonna waste my builders flight for things that doesn't requires it. I'm feeling stuck.

As told at the beginning, i have 16 hours left and none of the builds i'd like to build needs it at the beginning. I can't put it on hold during this time so i decided i won't log on until i found an idea on "how to use" the 16 hours left.
I even thought on using an alt to gather materials instead of using my account.
I really feel bad about it and as told i'm internally crying knowing it's gonna end soon and i will need it again in few days.

So, in order to fix those issues, it would be great if we can:

have an "how to use it + basic tips"
put the timer on "hold" when we don't need/use it
extend the duration of this flight timer to a week for example or maybe more.

The thing is: if you need the builders flight for 1 build then, 3 days of it is more than enough. But if you need it to build a full city, well it depends on how many builds or parts of your builds needs it.
at least if we could be able to put this timer on hold, it will be less frustrating. Also when you are building a city, 3 days ain't enough anyway. Especially when all your builds are skyscrapers.

I hope this helps and i really hope it will be possible to put this timer on hold in the future.

N.B.: btw guys, i'm a girl so, getting the message "you're feeling heavy" ain't nice at all. I feel like i'm an elephant suddenly. it's really not cool. i'm not feeling heavy coz girls have issues with their weight and that is a well know pb all over the world XD.
Instead if the messages could be " i believe i can fly" and "I believe i'm gonna crash soon". The flight should go off progressively, otherwise there might be a lot of unexpected dead players due to that too.

Ok, so here is my report. I specify here, my builders flight is still on. I have 16 hours left. At first it seemed wonderful because i was able to achieve some part on my builds that would have taken ages or maybe i would have gave up on those details because it was a titan work for me to do (and a lots of death moments too). Before having the builders flight, I was dying a lot, trying to reach some areas of my builds. Now I'm no more dying, that's a good point. Also I've been able to build faster and to also start projects i could only dreamed of before. Having the builders flight is really an advantage and a game changing, especially when it comes to build a city. Now this advantage has become a disadvantage for me, on some kind. As said i have 16 hours left on the 72 hours I initially got. I realized a bit too late, a timer could be displayed on my screen. I would have loved to get an "how to use the builders flight" before starting. Also, i lost a lot of my time gathering materials for my builds or building on the ground some part of them. As soon as i displayed this "timer", i was able to manage my time differently. I started to log on only for building special parts of my builds. Those that required flying. It was great, I was super efficient. Then I had to gather more materials to build a new build and the issues started for me. All the builds i planned on building included a lot of "on the ground" work. So instead of building them, i started to look for "what to build in the air". I remembered I had this project almost unfeasible without flying, so i went for it. As I needed to get around 2000 cottons, I bought some of them, grew most of them, same for the dyes. Cotton takes a lot of time to grow. I needed an "immediate" solution. My stress increased a bit more everyday. I was no more login to waste my time on waiting for this cotton to grow. I was just collecting, planting and disconnecting for 1 or 2 hours, waiting for it to grow. then login, collecting, planting and log off again In the meantime, some cities got attacked by Voice. I usually go and help people to defend cities but due to the builders flight, my time became "precious" lately. I made a tough call, I choose not to log back to help them and I felt very bad for that. I felt ashamed actually, because this is not me. I finished my 3rd build with the help of the builders flight. I got stress even more each time I had to do some ground work. I was pist-off to loose my time for grinding stuffs, not being able to place this timer on hold during my "on the ground" work. At this point, it really started to stress me a lot more. Even the friend i use to play with, hadn't see me in days. I guess he is no more login either. it's not fun to be in a team when the other one is no more coming. idk in the other teams of builders but i believe this can create issues between builders of a city if only one is getting it while several others needs it actually. Now i'm no more taking time to visit other cities, i'm no more helping or supporting other players during attacks (and i feel ashamed a lot for that). If a players needs help, i'm no more rushing to help. I'm no more login to build something else in the meantime too. I'm no more having fun or playing as usual because i know i'm gonna waste my builders flight for things that doesn't requires it. I'm feeling stuck. As told at the beginning, i have 16 hours left and none of the builds i'd like to build needs it at the beginning. I can't put it on hold during this time so i decided i won't log on until i found an idea on "how to use" the 16 hours left. I even thought on using an alt to gather materials instead of using my account. I really feel bad about it and as told i'm internally crying knowing it's gonna end soon and i will need it again in few days. So, in order to fix those issues, it would be great if we can: - have an "how to use it + basic tips" - put the timer on "hold" when we don't need/use it - extend the duration of this flight timer to a week for example or maybe more. The thing is: if you need the builders flight for 1 build then, 3 days of it is more than enough. But if you need it to build a full city, well it depends on how many builds or parts of your builds needs it. at least if we could be able to put this timer on hold, it will be less frustrating. Also when you are building a city, 3 days ain't enough anyway. Especially when all your builds are skyscrapers. I hope this helps and i really hope it will be possible to put this timer on hold in the future. N.B.: btw guys, i'm a girl so, getting the message "you're feeling heavy" ain't nice at all. I feel like i'm an elephant suddenly. it's really not cool. i'm not feeling heavy coz girls have issues with their weight and that is a well know pb all over the world XD. Instead if the messages could be " i believe i can fly" and "I believe i'm gonna crash soon". The flight should go off progressively, otherwise there might be a lot of unexpected dead players due to that too.

👍 1

Bla commented

2023-09-07 05:50:35 +00:00

N.B.: btw guys, i'm a girl so, getting the message "you're feeling heavy" ain't nice at all. I feel like i'm an elephant suddenly. it's really not cool. i'm not feeling heavy coz girls have issues with their weight and that is a well know pb all over the world XD.
Instead if the messages could be " i believe i can fly" and "I believe i'm gonna crash soon"...

Sorry but "I believe I can fly" can be linked to something that is really bad and flying + crash might also make some people uncomfortable.

I don´t think it should be changed just to dance around that "never mention anything weight related near any girl cause all of them have issues with it" stereotype.

> N.B.: btw guys, i'm a girl so, getting the message "you're feeling heavy" ain't nice at all. I feel like i'm an elephant suddenly. it's really not cool. i'm not feeling heavy coz girls have issues with their weight and that is a well know pb all over the world XD. > Instead if the messages could be " i believe i can fly" and "I believe i'm gonna crash soon"... Sorry but "I believe I can fly" can be linked to something that is really bad and flying + crash might also make some people uncomfortable. I don´t think it should be changed just to dance around that "never mention anything weight related near any girl cause all of them have issues with it" stereotype.

LadyPixels commented

2023-09-07 07:03:46 +00:00

well maybe involve gravity instead of "feeling heavy", coz gravity don't makes me feel heavy, it attracts me to the ground. it's not stereotype, it's just not "right" to say that. But that's not the biggest issue here. Actually i don't see that message too often.

daydream commented

2023-09-07 07:46:16 +00:00

I agree that the actual messages should be run by an actual writer, in the native language and then cross checked for translations. Whether or not feeling heavy is insulting or typically gender uncomfortable, it's not a well written message either way. This is good feedback, including this small bit about heaviness. Thank you LP!

Sokomine commented

2023-09-07 19:27:21 +00:00

Thanks for the good and extensive review, LadyPixels!

Beeing able to fly does indeed help a lot with building. It doesn't improve building style - it just saves time and makes fighting with controls easier. It's a relief for builders.

The other main factor - the timer running down - seems symtomatic for timers running down (be it visible or not). It creates pressure. Plus a lot of the problems arise from when builders' flight ends (how to deal with the player then, how to prevent dying, how to word a comprehensible helpful message).

But why does it have to end anyway? Yes, having to "refill" will consume some ressources, which players have to gather, but...is that really something where we gain something for gameplay? Builders' flight ought to be available when it's needed for building.

We certainly don't want players to have flying around during a voice attack (at least not if they participate). And in mining it's certainly inappropriate as well. The areas limitations plus some social limits (rules) might be enough for that?

Thanks for the good and extensive review, LadyPixels! Beeing able to fly does indeed help a lot with building. It doesn't improve building style - it just saves time and makes fighting with controls easier. It's a relief for builders. The other main factor - the timer running down - seems symtomatic for timers running down (be it visible or not). It creates pressure. Plus a lot of the problems arise from when builders' flight ends (how to deal with the player then, how to prevent dying, how to word a comprehensible helpful message). But why does it have to end anyway? Yes, having to "refill" will consume some ressources, which players have to gather, but...is that really something where we gain something for gameplay? Builders' flight ought to be available when it's needed for building. We certainly don't want players to have flying around during a voice attack (at least not if they participate). And in mining it's certainly inappropriate as well. The areas limitations plus some social limits (rules) might be enough for that?

jukeri commented

2023-09-21 06:39:37 +00:00

Here's my thoughts based on a few days of using:

Very useful - I saved a lot of frustration building things that are even a bit tall! Good if it comes as a quest reward.
The time given is very generous which is probably good - is it meant to be able to repeat whatever quest gives this as a reward? I think the time amount could be smaller then as this is quite "powerful"
At start I was confused as to how it works - when consuming the item, could it explain that you need to "enable flymode (default K)"?
When you are in an area for builder's flight, I think there should be an indicator at the center of the screen (like new mail message) that this is your area or that Builder's Flight is available - The "yl_statuseffects" message is easy to miss and somewhat distracting especially when you are building at the edges of your protected areas or if you are trying to follow chat
- If possible: Could the indicator tell where the closest edge of your protected areas is? I kept flying off the area when building walls etc. at the edges of my own protected areas
The HUD could have an indicator whether flymode is on or off - sure, I know Im flying but I am also probably focusing on building stuff
When mobs came to my area I could fly around and kill them quite safely from a distance - this is a side effect of being able to fly in your own area. Should builder's flight be disabled when enemies come near? (Someone else mentioned voice attacks and being able to fly is probably not good)

Here's my thoughts based on a few days of using: - Very useful - I saved a lot of frustration building things that are even a bit tall! Good if it comes as a quest reward. - The time given is very generous which is probably good - is it meant to be able to repeat whatever quest gives this as a reward? I think the time amount could be smaller then as this is quite "powerful" - At start I was confused as to how it works - when consuming the item, could it explain that you need to "enable flymode (default K)"? - When you are in an area for builder's flight, I think there should be an indicator at the center of the screen (like new mail message) that this is your area or that Builder's Flight is available - The "yl_statuseffects" message is easy to miss and somewhat distracting especially when you are building at the edges of your protected areas or if you are trying to follow chat * If possible: Could the indicator tell where the closest edge of your protected areas is? I kept flying off the area when building walls etc. at the edges of my own protected areas - The HUD could have an indicator whether flymode is on or off - sure, I know Im flying but I am also probably focusing on building stuff - When mobs came to my area I could fly around and kill them quite safely from a distance - this is a side effect of being able to fly in your own area. Should builder's flight be disabled when enemies come near? (Someone else mentioned voice attacks and being able to fly is probably not good)

AzelfYL commented

2023-11-19 12:09:03 +00:00

I still have an obscene amount of Builder's Flight time left, but I figured I'd post this report since I'll be less and less active because life sucks.

It's basically a godsend building the giant wall around my build. It allows me to align details in hard-to-reach areas and also saves me the worry of falling off and dying (the walls are in a mountainous area and the guard towers are very, very tall)

The time given is generous, but the big issue is that it continues to tick down regardless of circumstances. This makes afking while busy impossible. In addition, it essentially forces a player to do nothing but build lest they run out of time. While I still tend to join Voice fights, I do note that the timer ticking down can be an issue. Perhaps allow players to enable and disable the timer ticking down when they please, and have it automatically stop and restart if a player flies out of their area.

It also has ways by which it could be gamed, such as mining vertically (doesn't help that my main base is in a mine, but since I don't mine there this is not an issue) or using it to fly around in voice fights. Also, it running out can pressure people to build as much as they can in the limited time, which isn't good. Perhaps decreasing the time given but increasing the quantity of the candies can help?

I still have an obscene amount of Builder's Flight time left, but I figured I'd post this report since I'll be less and less active because life sucks. It's basically a godsend building the giant wall around my build. It allows me to align details in hard-to-reach areas and also saves me the worry of falling off and dying (the walls are in a mountainous area and the guard towers are very, very tall) The time given is generous, but the big issue is that it continues to tick down regardless of circumstances. This makes afking while busy impossible. In addition, it essentially forces a player to do nothing but build lest they run out of time. While I still tend to join Voice fights, I do note that the timer ticking down can be an issue. Perhaps allow players to enable and disable the timer ticking down when they please, and have it automatically stop and restart if a player flies out of their area. It also has ways by which it could be gamed, such as mining vertically (doesn't help that my main base is in a mine, but since I don't mine there this is not an issue) or using it to fly around in voice fights. Also, it running out can pressure people to build as much as they can in the limited time, which isn't good. Perhaps decreasing the time given but increasing the quantity of the candies can help?

DragonWrangler commented

2023-11-19 12:22:45 +00:00

Perhaps allow players to enable and disable the timer ticking down when they please, and have it automatically stop and restart if a player flies out of their area.

I feel like this could somehow be abused. Also I believe that it was meant so that once you started builders’ flight you’d have 3 days of ingame time, not 3 days of time spent building.

Perhaps decreasing the time given but increasing the quantity of the candies can help?

I feel like that might make players rush to build even more, but maybe I’m wrong.

>Perhaps allow players to enable and disable the timer ticking down when they please, and have it automatically stop and restart if a player flies out of their area. I feel like this could somehow be abused. Also I believe that it was meant so that once you started builders’ flight you’d have 3 days of ingame time, not 3 days of time spent building. >Perhaps decreasing the time given but increasing the quantity of the candies can help? I feel like that might make players rush to build even more, but maybe I’m wrong.

flux commented

2023-11-19 21:32:34 +00:00

This makes afking while busy impossible. In addition, it essentially forces a player to do nothing but build lest they run out of time.

personally i'm hoping that Alias adds a mechanism for acquiring the builders' flight items that isn't too difficult, so that builders can collect them easily enough that wasting the time isn't a huge problem. i think i wasted about 50% of the time of my test item AFK-ing, and regret that.

> This makes afking while busy impossible. In addition, it essentially forces a player to do nothing but build lest they run out of time. personally i'm hoping that Alias adds a mechanism for acquiring the builders' flight items that isn't too difficult, so that builders can collect them easily enough that wasting the time isn't a huge problem. i think i wasted about 50% of the time of my test item AFK-ing, and regret that.

flux referenced this issue

2024-03-15 00:56:06 +00:00

AspireMint reports: Do not send yl_statuseffects m ... #6482

AliasAlreadyTaken referenced this issue

2024-03-15 01:18:00 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken reports: Area borders. Detect switching ... #5128

flux referenced this issue

2024-03-15 03:56:54 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken reports: Area borders. Detect switching ... #5128

DragonWrangler commented

2024-03-15 11:17:48 +00:00

Chache wrote:

I'd like to remind that another possibility was discussed: add another player-effect that makes the player fall slowly and avoid any fall damage, but not fly (something like Minecraft's "Feather Falling").

When a player's Builders' Flight effect ends, activate the "Feather Falling". As soon as the player touches ground, deactivate it.

Interesting idea

Plus, the Feather Falling effect might be used for some other thing (for example some special boots that only players of the Rogue class can wear).

Disclaimer: I don't know if what I'm suggesting is technically feasible.

If I recall correctly, 3D armor does have a feather fall effect built in, so for the boots it’s definently feasible

Chache wrote: > I'd like to remind that another possibility was discussed: add another player-effect that makes the player fall slowly and avoid any fall damage, but not fly (something like Minecraft's "Feather Falling"). > When a player's Builders' Flight effect ends, activate the "Feather Falling". As soon as the player touches ground, deactivate it. Interesting idea > Plus, the Feather Falling effect might be used for some other thing (for example some special boots that only players of the Rogue class can wear). > Disclaimer: I don't know if what I'm suggesting is technically feasible. If I recall correctly, 3D armor does have a feather fall effect built in, so for the boots it’s definently feasible

flux commented

2024-03-16 03:37:45 +00:00

DragonWrangler's comments

we can't currently replicate minecraft's feather falling mechanic perfectly. notably, we can't implement a reliable terminal velocity in a laggy environment. SSCSM would probably let us do a better job, but SSCSM is a pipe dream, unless some genius comes along and helps minetest do it. there's also engine discussions about adopting a better physics engine into the core game, but i've not seen any promising discussion.

> `DragonWrangler's comments` we can't currently replicate minecraft's feather falling mechanic perfectly. notably, we can't implement a reliable terminal velocity in a laggy environment. SSCSM would probably let us do a better job, but SSCSM is a pipe dream, unless some genius comes along and helps minetest do it. there's also engine discussions about adopting a better physics engine into the core game, but i've not seen any promising discussion.

TheMadModder commented

2024-04-10 17:28:33 +00:00

So I have a suggestion for a builders flight revamp. Which may solve and add in the corrections players have suggested.

Make builders flight priv only
Make so when a player gets the priv, they also get the flight box.

Flight Box What Is It?

its a placeable node by the player with the priv.
it consumes lava orbs as fuel.
1 lava orb gives the player 4.125 minutes of flight and 99 lava orbs gives the player 24 hours.
also when time runs out a player slowly lowers back to the ground.

Benefits of Going this Route

We know who is using builders flight and can stop there flight in an area if they find a way to abuse it. i.e some how they are able to break bounds of there protected area within another protected area not owned by them.
The Flight Box can only be placed in an area the player with the priv owns.
No more warning message or can not use message spam in player main chat.
No more deaths for going outside your area, not noticing you did and than falling to your death.
A player controls the time of flight. i.e able to start up flight and shut down flight.
Gives another purpose to a one purpose only item at the moment. Unless you wanna burn it as fuel in your furnace, like a nyan it be a waste. Unless it was burning for flight! lol

I do have a sample code I wrote up I will post here. For anyone who would like to go over it and or maybe interested in helping with it. To move this mod idea into fruition and into a testing faze.

So I have a suggestion for a builders flight revamp. Which may solve and add in the corrections players have suggested. 1. Make builders flight priv only 2. Make so when a player gets the priv, they also get the flight box. Flight Box What Is It? 1. its a placeable node by the player with the priv. 2. it consumes lava orbs as fuel. 3. 1 lava orb gives the player 4.125 minutes of flight and 99 lava orbs gives the player 24 hours. 4. also when time runs out a player slowly lowers back to the ground. Benefits of Going this Route 1. We know who is using builders flight and can stop there flight in an area if they find a way to abuse it. i.e some how they are able to break bounds of there protected area within another protected area not owned by them. 2. The Flight Box can only be placed in an area the player with the priv owns. 3. No more warning message or can not use message spam in player main chat. 4. No more deaths for going outside your area, not noticing you did and than falling to your death. 5. A player controls the time of flight. i.e able to start up flight and shut down flight. 6. Gives another purpose to a one purpose only item at the moment. Unless you wanna burn it as fuel in your furnace, like a nyan it be a waste. Unless it was burning for flight! lol I do have a sample code I wrote up I will post here. For anyone who would like to go over it and or maybe interested in helping with it. To move this mod idea into fruition and into a testing faze.

BuildersFlight.odt

36 KiB

flux commented

2024-04-10 21:45:31 +00:00

Make builders flight priv only

what does this mean? get rid of the item?

Flight Box

this idea was previously considered and decided against when we were designing the current builders' flight. see discussion in #3453

No more deaths for going outside your area, not noticing you did and than falling to your death.

this was also considered and decided against.

A player controls the time of flight. i.e able to start up flight and shut down flight.

this is not possible for technical reasons without pipedream engine features.

> Make builders flight priv only what does this mean? get rid of the item? > Flight Box this idea was previously considered and decided against when we were designing the current builders' flight. see discussion in #3453 > No more deaths for going outside your area, not noticing you did and than falling to your death. this was also considered and decided against. > A player controls the time of flight. i.e able to start up flight and shut down flight. this is not possible for technical reasons without pipedream engine features.

👎 1

AzelfYL commented

2024-04-12 01:22:45 +00:00

Make builders flight priv only

what does this mean? get rid of the item?

He probably meant locking builder's flight such that only people with a priv can use it (kinda like TNT and cannons with cannoneer)

> > Make builders flight priv only > > what does this mean? get rid of the item? He probably meant locking builder's flight such that only people with a priv can use it (kinda like TNT and cannons with cannoneer)

flux commented

2024-04-12 03:58:24 +00:00

can we please have some way to reliably get builders' flight? i've been putting off builds for years now.

TheMadModder commented

2024-04-12 05:04:37 +00:00

Make builders flight priv only

what does this mean? get rid of the item?

Flight Box

this idea was previously considered and decided against when we were designing the current builders' flight. see discussion in #3453

No more deaths for going outside your area, not noticing you did and than falling to your death.

this was also considered and decided against.

A player controls the time of flight. i.e able to start up flight and shut down flight.

this is not possible for technical reasons without pipedream engine features.

Make it priv only means make it so its earned i.e like cannon, tnt and mese.

It might have bin decided against but maybe another look into needs to be taken. I think a simpler streight foward approach could be easier for many reasons. some of which I stated before.

Sorry I was not the only player who disliked dying just cause you went to far back looking at your build and making sure it looked like. why should you be punished for something unintentinly done. especially loosing hard earned xp.

How is this not possible? I play on 3 other servers who have similar versions just not using a box that requires fuel. It turns on and off flight with no issues or pipedream engine features.

> > Make builders flight priv only > > what does this mean? get rid of the item? > > > Flight Box > > this idea was previously considered and decided against when we were designing the current builders' flight. see discussion in #3453 > > > No more deaths for going outside your area, not noticing you did and than falling to your death. > > this was also considered and decided against. > > > A player controls the time of flight. i.e able to start up flight and shut down flight. > > this is not possible for technical reasons without pipedream engine features. > > > Make it priv only means make it so its earned i.e like cannon, tnt and mese. It might have bin decided against but maybe another look into needs to be taken. I think a simpler streight foward approach could be easier for many reasons. some of which I stated before. Sorry I was not the only player who disliked dying just cause you went to far back looking at your build and making sure it looked like. why should you be punished for something unintentinly done. especially loosing hard earned xp. How is this not possible? I play on 3 other servers who have similar versions just not using a box that requires fuel. It turns on and off flight with no issues or pipedream engine features.

Boot commented

2024-04-12 11:50:18 +00:00

How is this not possible? I play on 3 other servers who have similar versions just not using a box that requires fuel. It turns on and off flight with no issues or pipedream engine features.

Just because it's so common on other servers doesn't mean you should do the same on our server. If they all do the same thing, then in the end it's all arbitrary and it doesn't matter if you're playing here or on another server. I love playing on a very special server.

It might have bin decided against but maybe another look into needs to be taken. I think a simpler streight foward approach could be easier for many reasons. some of which I stated before.

Maybe the reason lies in what else is planned on this server? Perhaps such a permissive sightseeing flight, for example, would make the reconquest of a city too easy? I don't know, but I can well imagine that there can be such backgrounds. Once a privilege has been introduced, it is quickly introduced, but less easily taken away. There are several examples of this on our server.

Sorry I was not the only player who disliked dying just cause you went to far back looking at your build and making sure it looked like. why should you be punished for something unintentinly done. especially loosing hard earned xp.

So, why not simply pad out the really high areas so that no high fall damage can occur? If you are prepared for falling, the damage is usually much less. And if this is just about the potential loss of XP on particularly dangerous construction sites, then why not just hire a builder alt?

Apart from that, a good long term solution will be found, even without quick fixes and time pressure.

> How is this not possible? I play on 3 other servers who have similar versions just not using a box that requires fuel. It turns on and off flight with no issues or pipedream engine features. Just because it's so common on other servers doesn't mean you should do the same on our server. If they all do the same thing, then in the end it's all arbitrary and it doesn't matter if you're playing here or on another server. I love playing on a very special server. > It might have bin decided against but maybe another look into needs to be taken. I think a simpler streight foward approach could be easier for many reasons. some of which I stated before. Maybe the reason lies in what else is planned on this server? Perhaps such a permissive sightseeing flight, for example, would make the reconquest of a city too easy? I don't know, but I can well imagine that there can be such backgrounds. Once a privilege has been introduced, it is quickly introduced, but less easily taken away. There are several examples of this on our server. > Sorry I was not the only player who disliked dying just cause you went to far back looking at your build and making sure it looked like. why should you be punished for something unintentinly done. especially loosing hard earned xp. So, why not simply pad out the really high areas so that no high fall damage can occur? If you are prepared for falling, the damage is usually much less. And if this is just about the potential loss of XP on particularly dangerous construction sites, then why not just hire a builder alt? Apart from that, a good long term solution will be found, even without quick fixes and time pressure.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-04-12 15:15:47 +00:00

Looking at the feedback:

explaining the basics about Builder's Flight
have an "how to use it + basic tips"
could it explain that you need to "enable flymode (default K)"?

That should rather go to where the item is obtained or a tutorial? I'm really not in favour of formspecs everywhere, let alone those popping up midgame. I'd be ok-ish with an email or a book one can open when they want to see the info, but not a once-then-never effect and nothing that interrupts players when they are trying to do something else. Regardless where, we need some documentation. I'd only not want to add some while the item is still in balancing, because things might change.

yl_statuseffects notification

This is a temporary solution until we have all status effects in an API and on the HUD

Confusion where flight and where not
message is not enough to warn
colored chat message when players go outside of their areas
The "yl_statuseffects" message is easy to miss and somewhat distracting
indicator whether flymode is on or off
disliked dying just cause you went to far

There needs to be some indication what status we're in. Are we inside the area? Good. Are we outside the area? Danger! This 5 block extension was added so people have some leeway to get back into their area, it was not intended that people use this 5 blocks as natural part of the flight area and now are confused why there is no indicator they cannot fly 6 blocks away from their area. There needs to be some drawback to flying outside ones area other than imminent death.

There also needs to be some indicator that one cannot fly because the area is not old enough

And one minor thing: Please make the first letter of the messages Capital letters (so 'You feel heavy...' instead of 'you feel heavy...' etc.), it just looks better and is more consistent with other things.

Easy fix :D Thanks!

irritating are the wings that appear below
add a toggle

There is /toogle_bf_particles

particles but much smaller and less in quantity

Nice :) That appears to be implemented

create an equipabble item
started to log on only for building special parts of my builds
put the timer on "hold" when we don't need/use it
This makes afking while busy impossible
Also, it running out can pressure people to build as much as they can

Alias doesn't like that, but probably this is the way to go, so that people can decide when to fly and when not.

If people only log on to hastily build, then we achieved the opposite of what we wanted.

at the ending period something more would happen

Formspecs at the end of the flight period may cause sudden death when the user tries to get rid of the formspec while also trying to reach a non-lethal height.

builder's flight and voice attacks
Should builder's flight be disabled when enemies come near?

Voice already has flying creatures and builders flight is not fast enough to allow "air force" type movement and fights. "no damage to enemies while flying" is IMO the best option and technically not too hard to do.

When a player's Builders' Flight effect ends, activate the "Feather Falling". As soon as the player touches ground, deactivate it.
The flight should go off progressively, otherwise there might be a lot of unexpected dead players due to that too.
also when time runs out a player slowly lowers back to the ground.

Alias still doesn't like this idea, but by now he changed his mind. If we take all control off the player and softly move him to the ground, so that it is not deadly, but at least somewhat uncomfortable, I'd be ok with this. Do we have 100% "player is on ground" detection?

extend the duration of this flight timer to a week for example or maybe more.

The longer the flight period, the more expensive the item will be and the less people will have access to it. That's a balancing topic

you're feeling heavy
messages should be run by an actual writer

Those are easily reworded :D "i believe i can fly" and "I believe i'm gonna crash soon" sound nice :P

But why does it have to end anyway?
Builders' flight ought to be available when it's needed for building.

That's the essence of a survival server: If there was no limit, we could simply hand out the flight priv to everyone. Clear no.

Make builders flight priv only

We went the "item" route so that it can be traded

placeable node

I'd rather avoid placeable nodes, equipping the item sounds like a more intuitive mechanic. Still, the idea of tieing builders flight that way to an owned area is somewhat compelling. The initial draft had "allows flight only in ONE owned area", not all of them.

consumes lava orbs as fuel.

That sounds fun, but hard to do with the item approach. I'd rather not have a secondary item consumed apart from the builders flight item itself.

can we please have some way to reliably get builders' flight? i've been putting off builds for years now.
2 years by now

That's on me, there were always other things more important. I don't want to put that off any longer. Plan was to add a quest that gives people builder flight.

permissive sightseeing flight

You're right, for quest and battle reasons we cannot have unlimited personal flight. Airships are already a stretch, but they proved to add to the game instead of taking away. Those airships can be used for sightseeing flights.

Now I'll vanish into the balancing kitchen unless someone has something more to add or thinks I did not emphasize something appropriately?

Looking at the feedback: > explaining the basics about Builder's Flight > have an "how to use it + basic tips" > could it explain that you need to "enable flymode (default K)"? That should rather go to where the item is obtained or a tutorial? I'm really not in favour of formspecs everywhere, let alone those popping up midgame. I'd be ok-ish with an email or a book one can open when they want to see the info, but not a once-then-never effect and nothing that interrupts players when they are trying to do something else. Regardless where, we need some documentation. I'd only not want to add some while the item is still in balancing, because things might change. > yl_statuseffects notification This is a temporary solution until we have all status effects in an API and on the HUD > Confusion where flight and where not > message is not enough to warn > colored chat message when players go outside of their areas > The "yl_statuseffects" message is easy to miss and somewhat distracting > indicator whether flymode is on or off > disliked dying just cause you went to far There needs to be some indication what status we're in. Are we inside the area? Good. Are we outside the area? Danger! This 5 block extension was added so people have some leeway to get back into their area, it was not intended that people use this 5 blocks as natural part of the flight area and now are confused why there is no indicator they cannot fly 6 blocks away from their area. There needs to be some drawback to flying outside ones area other than imminent death. There also needs to be some indicator that one cannot fly because the area is not old enough > And one minor thing: Please make the first letter of the messages Capital letters (so 'You feel heavy...' instead of 'you feel heavy...' etc.), it just looks better and is more consistent with other things. Easy fix :D Thanks! > irritating are the wings that appear below > add a toggle There is `/toogle_bf_particles` > particles but much smaller and less in quantity Nice :) That appears to be implemented > create an equipabble item > started to log on only for building special parts of my builds > put the timer on "hold" when we don't need/use it > This makes afking while busy impossible > Also, it running out can pressure people to build as much as they can Alias doesn't like that, but probably this is the way to go, so that people can decide when to fly and when not. If people only log on to hastily build, then we achieved the opposite of what we wanted. > at the ending period something more would happen Formspecs at the end of the flight period may cause sudden death when the user tries to get rid of the formspec while also trying to reach a non-lethal height. > builder's flight and voice attacks > Should builder's flight be disabled when enemies come near? Voice already has flying creatures and builders flight is not fast enough to allow "air force" type movement and fights. "no damage to enemies while flying" is IMO the best option and technically not too hard to do. > When a player's Builders' Flight effect ends, activate the "Feather Falling". As soon as the player touches ground, deactivate it. > The flight should go off progressively, otherwise there might be a lot of unexpected dead players due to that too. > also when time runs out a player slowly lowers back to the ground. Alias still doesn't like this idea, but by now he changed his mind. If we take all control off the player and softly move him to the ground, so that it is not deadly, but at least somewhat uncomfortable, I'd be ok with this. Do we have 100% "player is on ground" detection? > extend the duration of this flight timer to a week for example or maybe more. The longer the flight period, the more expensive the item will be and the less people will have access to it. That's a balancing topic > you're feeling heavy > messages should be run by an actual writer Those are easily reworded :D "i believe i can fly" and "I believe i'm gonna crash soon" sound nice :P > But why does it have to end anyway? > Builders' flight ought to be available when it's needed for building. That's the essence of a survival server: If there was no limit, we could simply hand out the flight priv to everyone. Clear no. > Make builders flight priv only We went the "item" route so that it can be traded > placeable node I'd rather avoid placeable nodes, equipping the item sounds like a more intuitive mechanic. Still, the idea of tieing builders flight that way to an owned area is somewhat compelling. The initial draft had "allows flight only in ONE owned area", not all of them. > consumes lava orbs as fuel. That sounds fun, but hard to do with the item approach. I'd rather not have a secondary item consumed apart from the builders flight item itself. > can we please have some way to reliably get builders' flight? i've been putting off builds for years now. > 2 years by now That's on me, there were always other things more important. I don't want to put that off any longer. Plan was to add a quest that gives people builder flight. > permissive sightseeing flight You're right, for quest and battle reasons we cannot have unlimited personal flight. Airships are already a stretch, but they proved to add to the game instead of taking away. Those airships can be used for sightseeing flights. Now I'll vanish into the balancing kitchen unless someone has something more to add or thinks I did not emphasize something appropriately?

👍 1

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

2. prio/elevated

label 2024-04-12 18:07:32 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-04-14 19:02:17 +00:00

Review of DanteLeo:

Positives:
-You can fly.
-Limited in scope to your area.
-Fun Flying Effects under your feet.
-Limited in Time.

Negatives:
-No easy way to view timer.
-I tested 2 ways it can be abused
1-U can Fly in areas u are added to, so let's say a bad actor convinced someone to add them to area, they can fly there and go to places they shouldnt.
2-In a crowded place full of areas (eg: City with lots of plots), flight could be abused to reach secure places of other areas from above.

Recommendation:
Maybe limit the builder's flight specifically to one area per person.

Overview:
An awesome addition that I can see it having good use by many people, that also fit the lore of the world, maybe to obtain it add it as a quest that can be done once a month, or once every 2 months.

~DanteLeo

Review of DanteLeo: > Positives: > -You can fly. > -Limited in scope to your area. > -Fun Flying Effects under your feet. > -Limited in Time. > > Negatives: > -No easy way to view timer. > -I tested 2 ways it can be abused > 1-U can Fly in areas u are added to, so let's say a bad actor convinced someone to add them to area, they can fly there and go to places they shouldnt. > 2-In a crowded place full of areas (eg: City with lots of plots), flight could be abused to reach secure places of other areas from above. > > Recommendation: > Maybe limit the builder's flight specifically to one area per person. > > Overview: > An awesome addition that I can see it having good use by many people, that also fit the lore of the world, maybe to obtain it add it as a quest that can be done once a month, or once every 2 months. > > ~DanteLeo

DragonWrangler commented

2024-04-14 20:24:31 +00:00

1-U can Fly in areas u are added to, so let's say a bad actor convinced someone to add them to area, they can fly there and go to places they shouldnt.

my response to that ^ would be: To just make sure you only add those you truly trust to the area.

2-In a crowded place full of areas (eg: City with lots of plots), flight could be abused to reach secure places of other areas from above.

and my response to that ^ would be the recommendation of disallowing flight in every city other than the one that you own.
Ofc that wouldn't solve every problem, but it would solve the city problem.

Also perhaps there could be a way for staff to remove someone's flight ?

As for this:

Recommendation:
Maybe limit the builder's flight specifically to one area per person.

I think that may be a bit unfair. Suppose that someone is building a large fort and they are using 4 master areas to do it and they need fly in all 4 of those areas. That would then greatly limit how much of the build that player could do with flight.

>1-U can Fly in areas u are added to, so let's say a bad actor convinced someone to add them to area, they can fly there and go to places they shouldnt. my response to that ^ would be: To just make sure you only add those you truly trust to the area. >2-In a crowded place full of areas (eg: City with lots of plots), flight could be abused to reach secure places of other areas from above. and my response to that ^ would be the recommendation of disallowing flight in every city other than the one that you own. Ofc that wouldn't solve every problem, but it would solve the city problem. Also perhaps there could be a way for staff to remove someone's flight ? As for this: >Recommendation: Maybe limit the builder's flight specifically to one area per person. I think that may be a bit unfair. Suppose that someone is building a large fort and they are using 4 master areas to do it and they need fly in all 4 of those areas. That would then greatly limit how much of the build that player could do with flight.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-04-14 20:26:33 +00:00

Recommendation:
Maybe limit the builder's flight specifically to one area per person.

I think that may be a bit unfair. Suppose that someone is building a large fort and they are using 4 master areas to do it and they need fly in all 4 of those areas. That would then greatly limit how much of the build that player could do with flight.

That's a case for an area merge. Flight only in the area the item is used in is planned

> >Recommendation: > Maybe limit the builder's flight specifically to one area per person. > > I think that may be a bit unfair. Suppose that someone is building a large fort and they are using 4 master areas to do it and they need fly in all 4 of those areas. That would then greatly limit how much of the build that player could do with flight. That's a case for an area merge. Flight only in the area the item is used in is planned

flux commented

2024-04-15 03:47:01 +00:00

i had a whole huge response to this written yesterday but i apparently deleted it. ugh.

main point: this issue is too long to read and respond to. specific changes to the builder's flight mechanic should be proposed and discussed in separate issues.

second point: i've made a prototype of "yl_statuseffects" (but not yl-branded), mentioned in #4132. unless someone else wants to own that project, perhaps we should be working off of that?

i had a whole huge response to this written yesterday but i apparently deleted it. ugh. main point: this issue is too long to read and respond to. specific changes to the builder's flight mechanic should be proposed and discussed in separate issues. second point: i've made a prototype of "yl_statuseffects" (but not yl-branded), mentioned in #4132. unless someone else wants to own that project, perhaps we should be working off of that?

Kilarin commented

2024-04-16 01:15:48 +00:00

Still testing Builder's Flight, and I'd like to say I LOVE it!

My observations are probably going to line up pretty well with comments you have already received.

1: I love the fact that I can turn particles off and the hud on using commands.

2: I really think it needs some help explaining how to use it. If Alias hadn't told me about the toggle_bf command I wouldn't have realized they were available. And it took me embarrassingly long to figure out that the reason I kept falling wasn't some time limit on the item that I had not figured out yet, but the fact that I had an unexpected hole in my protected area. :)
I absolutely understand not wanting a lot of formspec popups. But how about a tool tip that just tells you to type bf_help for how to use the item?

3: I agree with the many other comments here that the current time limit encourages people to avoid logging in when they don't have to fly. It also encourages people to fly all the time that they are in their own territory, even when it is not critical. I think it would be better to have a constructable item that could be worn or activated, and then turned off when not needed. Winged boots or helm, for example. OR, an "amulet" that could be equipped in an armor slot? Or even just turned off and on by wielding it and "using" it. I think that an item that could be turned off and on would encourage people to stay on the server, and to use flight only when absolutely necessary. Both of which I would guess are the intended goals.

4: I think it would be good to not only provide a written warning, but play a sound when the user is about to fall.

Again, thank you. This is an absolutely fantastic item. I lost half a level in xp falling off of my scaffolding while trying to construct an airship balloon. Builder's Flight made a job that was becoming tedious fun again.

Still testing Builder's Flight, and I'd like to say I LOVE it! My observations are probably going to line up pretty well with comments you have already received. 1: I love the fact that I can turn particles off and the hud on using commands. 2: I really think it needs some help explaining how to use it. If Alias hadn't told me about the toggle_bf command I wouldn't have realized they were available. And it took me embarrassingly long to figure out that the reason I kept falling wasn't some time limit on the item that I had not figured out yet, but the fact that I had an unexpected hole in my protected area. :) I absolutely understand not wanting a lot of formspec popups. But how about a tool tip that just tells you to type bf_help for how to use the item? 3: I agree with the many other comments here that the current time limit encourages people to avoid logging in when they don't have to fly. It also encourages people to fly all the time that they are in their own territory, even when it is not critical. I think it would be better to have a constructable item that could be worn or activated, and then turned off when not needed. Winged boots or helm, for example. OR, an "amulet" that could be equipped in an armor slot? Or even just turned off and on by wielding it and "using" it. I think that an item that could be turned off and on would encourage people to stay on the server, and to use flight only when absolutely necessary. Both of which I would guess are the intended goals. 4: I think it would be good to not only provide a written warning, but play a sound when the user is about to fall. Again, thank you. This is an absolutely fantastic item. I lost half a level in xp falling off of my scaffolding while trying to construct an airship balloon. Builder's Flight made a job that was becoming tedious fun again.

flux commented

2024-04-16 04:59:42 +00:00

i mentioned this before but perhaps didn't stress it enough. HOW am i supposed to get builders flight at my convenience? currently i can't mesh it with my energy for doing builds.

i mentioned this before but perhaps didn't stress it enough. *HOW* am i supposed to get builders flight at my convenience? currently i can't mesh it with my energy for doing builds.

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