controversial idea: gain XP over time while logged in #4955

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flux · 2023-07-18T01:11:34Z

flux commented

2023-07-18 01:11:34 +00:00

i don't mean a meaningfully large amount of XP, just a trickle. say like 1xp per minute.

upside: players will get something back by just spending time on the server.
downside: players will AFK more to get XP.
downside: the server may end up w/ a ton of AFK players, making it hard for active players to use the server.
upside: the server's user numbers would go up, making it easier to directly compete w/ machine-heavy servers which encourage automation and AFK.

i think #3 is the heaviest argument, and i'm not sure how to get around it. part of blocky's demise was when multiple players AFK'ed w/ half a dozen alts and killed server performance. mesecons_debug and the new mob spawning mod i'm working on (spawnit) should reduce the performance implications somewhat.

i don't mean a meaningfully large amount of XP, just a trickle. say like 1xp per minute. 1. upside: players will get something back by just spending time on the server. 2. downside: players will AFK more to get XP. 3. downside: the server may end up w/ a ton of AFK players, making it hard for active players to use the server. 4. upside: the server's user numbers would go up, making it easier to directly compete w/ machine-heavy servers which encourage automation and AFK. i think #3 is the heaviest argument, and i'm not sure how to get around it. part of blocky's demise was when multiple players AFK'ed w/ half a dozen alts and killed server performance. mesecons_debug and the new mob spawning mod i'm working on (spawnit) should reduce the performance implications somewhat.

flux added the

1. kind/enhancement

1. kind/balancing

4. step/discussion

2. prio/controversial

labels 2023-07-18 01:11:34 +00:00

sixer commented

2023-07-18 12:51:19 +00:00

this will make motivation to be afk 24/7 for lot of people. I don't think it is a good idea. 1 xp per minute is over 10k xp per week ...

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-07-18 12:55:10 +00:00

This is not purely about xp gain, but also a gamedesign decision. What kind of gameplay do we want to support?

IMO, an afk player is worse than a player not on the server: They block resources and slots and add nothing to the community. They also give the impression that - despite high numbers - there's noone to play with. That's what makes YL so strong: Active people, in contrast to high number, low participation servers.

Plus, giving an incentive for going afk can be considered cheating on the server list, since player numbers play a big role in the "rating" of the server.

Giving an incentive for spending time may also lead to people spending more time than they have or running their machines overnight, wasting energy without having a gaming experience. There may be legit reasons for going afk, keeping a mesemachine active or gaining xp IMO is not a good one.

That said, I'm all for a small xp boost while actively playing. This would allow builders catch up to the fighters.

24hours afk would gain a player 1440xp , that's about level 5. The max level currently is 80, one needs 5.120.000 xp to reach that level. Pure 1xp per minute afk would cause people gain lvl 80 within 3556 days (9.7 years): 5 120 000 /60 /24 = 3555.5~

In the beginning there were plans to give people with active pvp 1 xp per minute and people outside a city 1 xp and people outside a protection 1.5 xp, but neither those conditions nor the numbers were used.

There is an afk mod in the planning, where we detect afk based on messages, walking, placing and so on or where people can announce themselves afk: https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/yl_afk

This is not purely about xp gain, but also a gamedesign decision. What kind of gameplay do we want to support? IMO, an afk player is worse than a player not on the server: They block resources and slots and add nothing to the community. They also give the impression that - despite high numbers - there's noone to play with. That's what makes YL so strong: Active people, in contrast to high number, low participation servers. Plus, giving an incentive for going afk can be considered cheating on the server list, since player numbers play a big role in the "rating" of the server. Giving an incentive for spending time may also lead to people spending more time than they have or running their machines overnight, wasting energy without having a gaming experience. There may be legit reasons for going afk, keeping a mesemachine active or gaining xp IMO is not a good one. That said, **I'm all for a small xp boost while actively playing**. This would allow builders catch up to the fighters. 24hours afk would gain a player 1440xp , that's about level 5. The max level currently is 80, one needs 5.120.000 xp to reach that level. Pure 1xp per minute afk would cause people gain lvl 80 within 3556 days (9.7 years): `5 120 000 /60 /24 = 3555.5~` In the beginning there were plans to give people with active pvp 1 xp per minute and people outside a city 1 xp and people outside a protection 1.5 xp, but neither those conditions nor the numbers were used. There is an afk mod in the planning, where we detect afk based on messages, walking, placing and so on or where people can announce themselves afk: https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/yl_afk

👍 5

Sokomine commented

2023-07-18 17:54:57 +00:00

1440 XP per day are nothing. Doesn't seem worth the trouble of implementing it.

Allowing builders to catch up: Give more XP for actual building than for just digging in a mine? Still wouldn't help much - not even with 2-3 the amount of xp. And difficult to detect.

For higher level players what'd help most is less loss during Voice battles. Less lag.

XP for actively playing - and that does include writing in chat and /msgs - would be nice. Nothing excessive; perhaps 1 XP per line sent.

Talking to NPC could also gain XP. Again, nothing excessive. But it takes time to right-click them and read what they have to say. The player is actively doing something. Not just afking.

Regarding builders: Giving XP for having an area beeing rated up could help. But not with the current system where the amount of upvotes per time is far too limited to cover any expedition tours whatsoever. The player who deserves the XP most likely wouldn't even be online when someone comes and enjoys his build.

1440 XP per day are nothing. Doesn't seem worth the trouble of implementing it. Allowing builders to catch up: Give more XP for actual building than for just digging in a mine? Still wouldn't help much - not even with 2-3 the amount of xp. And difficult to detect. For higher level players what'd help most is less loss during Voice battles. Less lag. XP for actively playing - and that does include writing in chat and /msgs - would be nice. Nothing excessive; perhaps 1 XP per line sent. Talking to NPC could also gain XP. Again, nothing excessive. But it takes time to right-click them and read what they have to say. The player is actively doing something. Not just afking. Regarding builders: Giving XP for having an area beeing rated up could help. But not with the current system where the amount of upvotes per time is far too limited to cover any expedition tours whatsoever. The player who deserves the XP most likely wouldn't even be online when someone comes and enjoys his build.

sixer commented

2023-07-18 18:32:58 +00:00

There exist a mod where you get income (some server money - minegeld, abyssal bucks, whatever is configured... ) every game day (i.e. 20 minutes) if you are active (i.e. you mined or placed a block).

Here with similar mechanism it could be 1 xp per minute (or 2-5 minute block?) of active presence - i.e. in that minute(s) you have either mined a block, typed a chat message, placed a block .... or perhaps done at least 10 of those actions in total.

Simply giving 1 xp per message
would
encourage
spamming
with lot
of messages.
Not a good idea.

There exist a mod where you get income (some server money - minegeld, abyssal bucks, whatever is configured... ) every game day (i.e. 20 minutes) if you are active (i.e. you mined or placed a block). Here with similar mechanism it could be 1 xp per minute (or 2-5 minute block?) of active presence - i.e. in that minute(s) you have either mined a block, typed a chat message, placed a block .... or perhaps done at least 10 of those actions in total. Simply giving 1 xp per message would encourage spamming with lot of messages. Not a good idea.

👍 1

Sokomine commented

2023-07-18 19:39:33 +00:00

Hmm. We do have spammers sometimes already. If they exaggerate they get stored away in jail...though really motivating them to spawm more would be bad, yes.

AzelfYL commented

2023-07-19 11:38:32 +00:00

Possibly have it so that the exp gain halts if the player has not made any action after a certain period of time, say 30 seconds?

👍 2

DragonWrangler commented

2023-07-21 15:56:53 +00:00

what if you add a mod to auto kick players if they afk for lets say 30 minutes or longer ? because a few months ago the server was full and players were having trouble getting on. My guess is that some players were afk.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-07-21 16:29:30 +00:00

In such a case we most likely need to remove afk players and second accounts (See discussion in your-land/bugtracker#4588

There is no protocol for that - yet, but there is a mod in the planning: yl_afk. It includes detection of afk, but not autokick.

In such a case we most likely need to remove afk players and second accounts (See discussion in your-land/bugtracker#4588 There is no protocol for that - yet, but there is a mod in the planning: yl_afk. It includes detection of afk, but not autokick.

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