Bla reports: ropes, non pointable ropes are ... #2412

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yourland-report · 2022-08-05T19:05:48Z

yourland-report commented

2022-08-05 19:05:48 +00:00

Bla reports a bug:

ropes, non pointable ropes are annoying. Im currently building a shaft and my rope ends in air because cave. cant go back up a bit, cut the rope and place new one. would need to go back up 450m and cut it there but how do I get back down then.

Player position:

{
	y = -1332.3389892578,
	z = -29847.80078125,
	x = 4471.9409179688
}

Player look:

{
	y = -0.98061466217041,
	z = -0.023268783465028,
	x = 0.19455975294113
}

Player information:

{
	patch = 0,
	formspec_version = 6,
	lang_code = "",
	major = 5,
	minor = 7,
	version_string = "5.7.0-dev-ec778508d-dirty",
	state = "Active",
	min_rtt = 0.026000000536442,
	ip_version = 6,
	protocol_version = 40,
	max_rtt = 1.1690000295639,
	avg_rtt = 0.027000000700355,
	min_jitter = 0,
	max_jitter = 0.96799999475479,
	avg_jitter = 0.0010000001639128,
	connection_uptime = 1568,
	serialization_version = 29
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.65936e+09",
		["stamina:level"] = "16",
		["signslib:pos"] = "(1975,18,1185)",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no",
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death_portal\"] = 1659649946, [\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = 99, [\"z\"] = 645, [\"x\"] = 1397}, [\"last_heal\"] = 1635970005}",
		punch_count = "121383",
		ui_waypoints = "{\"data\":[{\"active\":false,\"color\":2.0,\"display_pos\":true,\"world_pos\":{\"x\":-448.0,\"y\":25.0,\"z\":1341.0}},{\"active\":false,\"world_pos\":{\"x\":-447.0,\"y\":25.0,\"z\":1344.0}}],\"selected\":1.0}",
		partychat = "party",
		repellant = "0",
		["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "1",
		yl_commons_player_created = "1635266646",
		["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"water_life:croc_bag\", \"water_life:croc_bag\", \"water_life:croc_bag\", \"water_life:croc_bag\"}",
		bitten = "0",
		xp = "870943",
		yl_commons_thankyou = "262",
		inflicted_damage = "2355034",
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"shields:shield_crystal 1 21180\", \"3d_armor:helmet_crystal 1 21180\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 21180\", \"3d_armor:leggings_crystal 1 21180\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_crystal 1 21180\", \"\"}",
		played_time = "7445305",
		digged_nodes = "749596",
		placed_nodes = "170480",
		died = "89",
		crafted = "23914",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1659724936",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "13",
		hud_state = "on",
		jointime = "1635266646",
		arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = BWdjZKS5Yre3UJ3cJN8fRlRVD8LKkuHv

Profiler save:

profile-20220805T190548.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.5.1-yl | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 5d 15h 2min 25s | max lag: 2.72s | clients: maniacbear, rabenkind, BTS-, Oakenshield, Kiyoko, LZXTVhCSVlr, Bla, XeLNaGa, RedAppleYum, Cody, KewiPro, Lupercus, acen2006, Ceppi, FailFactory, Bishiro, pitman, flux, Ravise, daydream, Boot, ybht, GrimPixel, AliasAlreadyTaken, Service, Kodin, Bailiff

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz 4472 -1332 -29848

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction BWdjZKS5Yre3UJ3cJN8fRlRVD8LKkuHv D2691E 4472 -1332 -29848

Bla reports a bug: > ropes, non pointable ropes are annoying. Im currently building a shaft and my rope ends in air because cave. cant go back up a bit, cut the rope and place new one. would need to go back up 450m and cut it there but how do I get back down then. Player position: ``` { y = -1332.3389892578, z = -29847.80078125, x = 4471.9409179688 } ``` Player look: ``` { y = -0.98061466217041, z = -0.023268783465028, x = 0.19455975294113 } ``` Player information: ``` { patch = 0, formspec_version = 6, lang_code = "", major = 5, minor = 7, version_string = "5.7.0-dev-ec778508d-dirty", state = "Active", min_rtt = 0.026000000536442, ip_version = 6, protocol_version = 40, max_rtt = 1.1690000295639, avg_rtt = 0.027000000700355, min_jitter = 0, max_jitter = 0.96799999475479, avg_jitter = 0.0010000001639128, connection_uptime = 1568, serialization_version = 29 } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { ["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.65936e+09", ["stamina:level"] = "16", ["signslib:pos"] = "(1975,18,1185)", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no", yl_church = "return {[\"last_death_portal\"] = 1659649946, [\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = 99, [\"z\"] = 645, [\"x\"] = 1397}, [\"last_heal\"] = 1635970005}", punch_count = "121383", ui_waypoints = "{\"data\":[{\"active\":false,\"color\":2.0,\"display_pos\":true,\"world_pos\":{\"x\":-448.0,\"y\":25.0,\"z\":1341.0}},{\"active\":false,\"world_pos\":{\"x\":-447.0,\"y\":25.0,\"z\":1344.0}}],\"selected\":1.0}", partychat = "party", repellant = "0", ["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "1", yl_commons_player_created = "1635266646", ["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"water_life:croc_bag\", \"water_life:croc_bag\", \"water_life:croc_bag\", \"water_life:croc_bag\"}", bitten = "0", xp = "870943", yl_commons_thankyou = "262", inflicted_damage = "2355034", ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"shields:shield_crystal 1 21180\", \"3d_armor:helmet_crystal 1 21180\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 21180\", \"3d_armor:leggings_crystal 1 21180\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_crystal 1 21180\", \"\"}", played_time = "7445305", digged_nodes = "749596", placed_nodes = "170480", died = "89", crafted = "23914", yl_commons_player_joined = "1659724936", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "13", hud_state = "on", jointime = "1635266646", arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = BWdjZKS5Yre3UJ3cJN8fRlRVD8LKkuHv ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20220805T190548.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.5.1-yl | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 5d 15h 2min 25s | max lag: 2.72s | clients: maniacbear, rabenkind, BTS-, Oakenshield, Kiyoko, LZXTVhCSVlr, Bla, XeLNaGa, RedAppleYum, Cody, KewiPro, Lupercus, acen2006, Ceppi, FailFactory, Bishiro, pitman, flux, Ravise, daydream, Boot, ybht, GrimPixel, AliasAlreadyTaken, Service, Kodin, Bailiff ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz 4472 -1332 -29848 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction BWdjZKS5Yre3UJ3cJN8fRlRVD8LKkuHv D2691E 4472 -1332 -29848 ```

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2022-08-05 19:05:48 +00:00

flux commented

2022-08-06 01:59:30 +00:00

@Bla my suspicion is that the real issue here, is you can no longer place random nodes (e.g. cobble) next to a rope "node" in order to create an anchor for another ropebox. i've absolutely used that mechanism myself in the past, but i think that the current behavior is a feature and not a bug.

flux added the

1. kind/balancing

label 2022-08-06 02:00:01 +00:00

Bla commented

2022-08-06 09:19:49 +00:00

@flux nope its like I described it.

the 450m ropebox is at -896, rope ends at -1346. cave roof where I could place a new one at -1333.
But I cant cut the rope there anymore, would need to go back up -896 to remove the ropebox and find a way back down. Place the new ropebox at -1333, go back up to -896 to place it there again.

And I dont think its a feature, its just to prevent cheating by placing blocks against it.
cuttable ropes is a feature because you can do it on purpose and have to be carefull to not do it by accident and fall.

preventing cheating is absolutly necessary but shouldnt always end up as disadvantage for normal players.

@flux nope its like I described it. the 450m ropebox is at -896, rope ends at -1346. cave roof where I could place a new one at -1333. But I cant cut the rope there anymore, would need to go back up -896 to remove the ropebox and find a way back down. Place the new ropebox at -1333, go back up to -896 to place it there again. And I dont think its a feature, its just to prevent cheating by placing blocks against it. cuttable ropes is a feature because you can do it on purpose and have to be carefull to not do it by accident and fall. preventing cheating is absolutly necessary but shouldnt always end up as disadvantage for normal players. ![](https://gitea.your-land.de/attachments/276f8a40-38d7-439e-a3af-47823e2bbd6e) ![](https://gitea.your-land.de/attachments/c2e2938c-bb1b-423e-9fd4-a6b485195dbd)

mineshaft.jpg

31 KiB

mineshaft2.jpg

27 KiB

flux commented

2022-08-06 17:05:20 +00:00

i understand the problem now. cutting ropes was a problem because other players might do it to your ropes, or a player might do it to their own rope accidentally, causing weirdness (see #2027). might need to rethink how to do this a bit more..

i understand the problem now. cutting ropes was a problem because *other* players might do it to your ropes, or a player might do it to their own rope accidentally, causing weirdness (see #2027). might need to rethink how to do this a bit more..

flux added this to the flux's TODO list project 2022-08-06 17:06:19 +00:00

flux self-assigned this 2022-08-06 17:06:23 +00:00

flux commented

2022-11-03 01:26:23 +00:00

proposal for a solution:

ropes become pointable again
ropes get the item groups {ropey = 1, level = 3} (or similar)
shears get toolcaps to break them

alternate, rather conceptually hacky solution:

as above
but ropes are liquids (liquidtype ~= "none"), and so not normally pointable.
shears get the liquids_pointable = true property.

side effects:

players trying to "cut up" water.
players trying to use a bucket on ropes

it sounds goofy, but i actually find this pretty plausible. players don't need to understand that "ropes are a liquid" are the solution.

in either case,

every rope node will have to remember how much farther down it is to extend
an on_dig override will have to remind cut rope that it is to continue to descend (after a grace period of 60 seconds or something)
a timer callback from the on_dig override must verify that the rope above it - all the way up to the ropefox - is still intact (a minetest.emerge_area call when the rope is cut, a minetest.load_area call when the timer triggers).

proposal for a solution: 1. ropes become pointable again 2. ropes get the item groups `{ropey = 1, level = 3}` (or similar) 3. shears get toolcaps to break them alternate, rather conceptually hacky solution: 1. as above 2. but ropes are liquids (`liquidtype ~= "none"`), and so not normally pointable. 3. shears get the `liquids_pointable = true` property. side effects: * players trying to "cut up" water. * players trying to use a bucket on ropes it sounds goofy, but i actually find this pretty plausible. players don't need to understand that "ropes are a liquid" are the solution. in either case, 1. every rope node will have to remember how much farther down it is to extend 2. an on_dig override will have to remind cut rope that it is to continue to descend (after a grace period of 60 seconds or something) 3. a timer callback from the on_dig override must verify that the rope above it - all the way up to the ropefox - is still intact (a `minetest.emerge_area` call when the rope is cut, a `minetest.load_area` call when the timer triggers).

flux added the

2. prio/elevated

4. step/discussion

labels 2023-01-26 15:37:13 +00:00

flux commented

2023-01-26 15:41:32 +00:00

another solution:

every rope node keeps track of how far up the ropebox is, and how much rope is left
ropes become placable_to.
breaking a rope will destroy all the rope nodes below, and turn the node above into a rope end
if you remove the obstruction, the rope continues to descend again

this will require some substantial work on the rope mod

another solution: * every rope node keeps track of how far up the ropebox is, and how much rope is left * ropes become `placable_to`. * breaking a rope will destroy all the rope nodes below, and turn the node above into a rope end * if you remove the obstruction, the rope continues to descend again this will require some substantial work on the rope mod

Sokomine commented

2023-01-26 19:11:52 +00:00

Idea: A rope can't just extend downwards - it can also be pulled back up.

Once the rope is fully extended, the rope end node would have to mutate into one that doesn't want to extend anymore but which can be punched or right-clicked. If the player right-clicks the rope-end node (ought to have a hitbox that streches 2-3 blocks upwards), the rope will be pulled up one block again (provided there are at least 2 blocks of rope left above it).

Now, this might lead to a problem if the rope the player's clinging to suddenly pulls up and the player ends up hanging in air and falling. So any players clinging to the rope need to be moved one block up as well as long as they havn't reached the ropebox yet. Could be a funny effect.

Idea: A rope can't just extend downwards - it can also be pulled back up. Once the rope is fully extended, the rope end node would have to mutate into one that doesn't want to extend anymore but which can be punched or right-clicked. If the player right-clicks the rope-end node (ought to have a hitbox that streches 2-3 blocks upwards), the rope will be pulled *up* one block again (provided there are at least 2 blocks of rope left above it). Now, this might lead to a problem if the rope the player's clinging to suddenly pulls up and the player ends up hanging in air and falling. So any players clinging to the rope need to be moved one block up as well as long as they havn't reached the ropebox yet. Could be a funny effect.

👍 1

Murmel commented

2023-02-21 16:41:03 +00:00

mhh, I do not know if this is a new issue or associated with this one.
I accidently built a rope of two flax (can not find a recipe for that, otherwise I would give the exact name for this node) and placed it on the floor.
Now there is a one node rope on the floor and it seems there is no way to point at or remove it.
I can climb up and down, so there is something but I don't now what exactly it is.

mhh, I do not know if this is a new issue or associated with this one. I accidently built a rope of two flax (can not find a recipe for that, otherwise I would give the exact name for this node) and placed it on the floor. Now there is a one node rope on the floor and it seems there is no way to point at or remove it. I can climb up and down, so there is *something* but I don't now what exactly it is.

Bla referenced this issue

2023-05-12 21:58:51 +00:00

Suggestion: Set length of ropebox via formspec #4475

flux referenced this issue

2023-05-20 18:07:49 +00:00

johanlegend reports: rope can be created with 2 dry ... #4565

flux commented

2024-01-21 23:47:28 +00:00

there's an upstream PR in development that might give us the ability to create a special tool just for cutting ropes.

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/13992

there's an upstream PR in development that might give us the ability to create a special tool just for cutting ropes. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/13992

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