AspireMint reports: Sometimes there are too many v ... #6411

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yourland-report · 2024-03-06T19:54:19Z

yourland-report commented

2024-03-06 19:54:19 +00:00

AspireMint reports a bug:

Sometimes there are too many voice troops we can't get to focus. Even with invis potions (eyes). Item petz:jack_o_lantern_grenade could be used for paralyzing troops (they would stop following you OR run away from explosion?) and focus (it would stop spawning troops for some time). Because it is cheap item, it should have small radius.

Player position:

{
	x = 1982.6989746094,
	y = 18,
	z = 1175.0269775391
}

Player look:

{
	x = -0.98899441957474,
	y = -0.14763678610325,
	z = 0.0096666226163507
}

Player information:

{
	max_rtt = 13.494999885559,
	protocol_version = 42,
	lang_code = "",
	minor = 7,
	ip_version = 6,
	min_rtt = 0.025000000372529,
	avg_rtt = 0.035999998450279,
	min_jitter = 0,
	max_jitter = 13.343999862671,
	avg_jitter = 0,
	connection_uptime = 8970,
	serialization_version = 29,
	patch = 0,
	formspec_version = 6,
	state = "Active",
	version_string = "5.7.0",
	major = 5
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		digged_nodes = "2034996",
		placed_nodes = "398710",
		died = "386",
		yl_commons_player_created = "1619715757",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1709745944",
		["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"water_life:croc_bag\"}",
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"x\"] = 4551, [\"y\"] = 29802, [\"z\"] = 1539}, [\"last_heal\"] = 1708702962, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1709670258}",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "150",
		punch_count = "566948",
		repellant = "0",
		["stamina:level"] = "17",
		hud_state = "on",
		yl_commons_thankyou = "298",
		["petz:werewolf_clan_idx"] = "4",
		["ocean_build.forbidden"] = "true",
		["petz:lycanthropy"] = "0",
		xp = "2121499",
		["petz:werewolf"] = "0",
		["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.65674e+09",
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:helmet_nether 1 5220\", \"\", \"3d_armor:leggings_nether 1 10440\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 5220\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_nether 1 10440\", \"shields:shield_nether 1 10440\"}",
		["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "12",
		arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0",
		bitten = "0",
		crafted = "131451",
		jointime = "1619715757",
		played_time = "7062276",
		["signslib:pos"] = "(-54,5,22529)",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no",
		partychat = "party",
		inflicted_damage = "12265384"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = aPBR1JZtR6TvOWFKqMSO9rw0ltqoAtFw

Profiler save:

profile-20240306T195419.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 3d 6h 17min 28s | max lag: 1.37s | clients (17/52): AliasAlreadyTaken, AspireMint, Bailiff, Boot, Crazylad, damour2_, flux, formations52, LadyPixels, Lucien, Lucien_II, LucyUnicorn_Queen, Murmel, pavlo98, poppyasdan, Service, the_chosen_one

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz 1983 18 1175

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction aPBR1JZtR6TvOWFKqMSO9rw0ltqoAtFw D2691E 1983 18 1175

AspireMint reports a bug: > Sometimes there are too many voice troops we can't get to focus. Even with invis potions (eyes). Item petz:jack_o_lantern_grenade could be used for paralyzing troops (they would stop following you OR run away from explosion?) and focus (it would stop spawning troops for some time). Because it is cheap item, it should have small radius. Player position: ``` { x = 1982.6989746094, y = 18, z = 1175.0269775391 } ``` Player look: ``` { x = -0.98899441957474, y = -0.14763678610325, z = 0.0096666226163507 } ``` Player information: ``` { max_rtt = 13.494999885559, protocol_version = 42, lang_code = "", minor = 7, ip_version = 6, min_rtt = 0.025000000372529, avg_rtt = 0.035999998450279, min_jitter = 0, max_jitter = 13.343999862671, avg_jitter = 0, connection_uptime = 8970, serialization_version = 29, patch = 0, formspec_version = 6, state = "Active", version_string = "5.7.0", major = 5 } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { digged_nodes = "2034996", placed_nodes = "398710", died = "386", yl_commons_player_created = "1619715757", yl_commons_player_joined = "1709745944", ["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"water_life:croc_bag\"}", yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"x\"] = 4551, [\"y\"] = 29802, [\"z\"] = 1539}, [\"last_heal\"] = 1708702962, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1709670258}", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "150", punch_count = "566948", repellant = "0", ["stamina:level"] = "17", hud_state = "on", yl_commons_thankyou = "298", ["petz:werewolf_clan_idx"] = "4", ["ocean_build.forbidden"] = "true", ["petz:lycanthropy"] = "0", xp = "2121499", ["petz:werewolf"] = "0", ["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.65674e+09", ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"3d_armor:helmet_nether 1 5220\", \"\", \"3d_armor:leggings_nether 1 10440\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 5220\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_nether 1 10440\", \"shields:shield_nether 1 10440\"}", ["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "12", arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0", bitten = "0", crafted = "131451", jointime = "1619715757", played_time = "7062276", ["signslib:pos"] = "(-54,5,22529)", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no", partychat = "party", inflicted_damage = "12265384" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = aPBR1JZtR6TvOWFKqMSO9rw0ltqoAtFw ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20240306T195419.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 3d 6h 17min 28s | max lag: 1.37s | clients (17/52): AliasAlreadyTaken, AspireMint, Bailiff, Boot, Crazylad, damour2_, flux, formations52, LadyPixels, Lucien, Lucien_II, LucyUnicorn_Queen, Murmel, pavlo98, poppyasdan, Service, the_chosen_one ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz 1983 18 1175 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction aPBR1JZtR6TvOWFKqMSO9rw0ltqoAtFw D2691E 1983 18 1175 ```

👎 1

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2024-03-06 19:54:19 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

1. kind/enhancement

1. kind/balancing

labels 2024-03-07 07:41:14 +00:00

AzelfYL commented

2024-03-08 11:07:41 +00:00

We can't control what voice does - only be able to move and adapt.

Out of universe, I think the number is alright for the stone monster troop foci (Scouts, Elites, Fighters) but it's not fine when we're talking about things like Small and Micro foci. Those+eyes in a protection are basically impossible to deal with. I always figured that those were moreso shock troops of Voice and thus would be in smaller numbers.

We can't control what voice does - only be able to move and adapt. Out of universe, I think the number is alright for the stone monster troop foci (Scouts, Elites, Fighters) but it's not fine when we're talking about things like Small and Micro foci. Those+eyes in a protection are basically impossible to deal with. I always figured that those were moreso shock troops of Voice and thus would be in smaller numbers.

daydream commented

2024-03-09 00:59:58 +00:00

ya i don't see how voice would have so many smalls/micros - they are not the expendable troops that ones based on stone monster are really... and we've had hundreds of them at times... IDK how we even deal with them, I have never watched from over head, I've never seen a single voice battle - when you're in them, you don't get that big picture or any sort of overview... so any comments from players about these battles - that is our only perspective, even experienced fighters are mostly trying to survive the battle... this whole idea that we can also assess and figure out strategy WHILE trying to survive... hmmm not really going to happen.

Boot commented

2024-03-09 10:22:30 +00:00

I also don't understand why the goal of our struggle should always and everywhere be the destruction of every single enemy. What is this strategy? That's right, none. Our goal should be to protect our cities. Some of them already have voice in them! This is worrying, and not whether hundreds or even thousands of troops appear outside the walls for a short time. That's why I expect a tactical approach instead of blind thrashing. And yes, even during a battle.

rewired_X commented

2024-03-09 17:13:55 +00:00

this has gone WAY off the rails so here's my two cents over the ACTUAL suggestion
The petz jack-o-lantern grenade stunning troops might seem great on paper, but if you just consistently use them every x seconds, where's the fun? every troop will just be standing there, and considering the grenades are also cheap to make, not in favor unless balancing measures are in place.

edit: small radius doesn't help matters any - still gonna have troops standing around (even the eyes would probably stand still) and when paired with invis, you can just solo a focus without problem. you won't even need to announce it - the battle would be over before anyone can even arrive.

edit 2: general blanket statement, this bug is a suggestion, not a place for yall to talk about voice tactics and what-not. if you want one of those, make one. now I did reconsider everything about the suggestion and I'm still not in favor. heavily not in favor. small radius can be used on things like eyes to render them immobile. consistently spam them enough, and you can kill them without a fight. there's just no fun, y'know?

this has gone WAY off the rails so here's my two cents over the ACTUAL suggestion The petz jack-o-lantern grenade stunning troops might seem great on paper, but if you just consistently use them every x seconds, where's the fun? every troop will just be standing there, and considering the grenades are also cheap to make, not in favor unless balancing measures are in place. edit: small radius doesn't help matters any - still gonna have troops standing around (even the eyes would probably stand still) and when paired with invis, you can just solo a focus without problem. you won't even need to announce it - the battle would be over before anyone can even arrive. edit 2: general blanket statement, this bug is a suggestion, not a place for yall to talk about voice tactics and what-not. if you want one of those, make one. now I did reconsider everything about the suggestion and I'm still not in favor. heavily not in favor. small radius can be used on things like eyes to render them immobile. consistently spam them enough, and you can kill them without a fight. there's just no fun, y'know?

rewired_X commented

2024-03-13 12:27:58 +00:00

I seem to have killed this bug from my outrage.
Suggestions like this one are appreciated and all but I just don't see the petz grenade working as essentially a free stun. I mean sure, it would help eventually cut the lag down (much like the now-dead elec sword strategy) but there's still room for improvement.

I seem to have killed this bug from my outrage. Suggestions like this one are appreciated and all but I just don't see the petz grenade working as essentially a free stun. I mean sure, it would help eventually cut the lag down (much like the now-dead elec sword strategy) but there's still room for improvement.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-03-13 13:11:02 +00:00

Of course it is a balancing thing. There are all kinds of knobs and buttons we can use to not let this get out of hand. Would any of these help?

Imagine there was a grenade type weapon that could stun enemies, but only once per enemy, then they learn to adapt.

Imagine there was only a chance to get a monster stunned, with higher (monsterlevel, remaining hitpoints, ... ) $somestat it becomes less likely to get it stunned at all.

Imagine THEY get a stun mechanic, too?

Of course it is a balancing thing. There are all kinds of knobs and buttons we can use to not let this get out of hand. Would any of these help? Imagine there was a grenade type weapon that could stun enemies, but only once per enemy, then they learn to adapt. Imagine there was only a chance to get a monster stunned, with higher (monsterlevel, remaining hitpoints, ... ) $somestat it becomes less likely to get it stunned at all. Imagine THEY get a stun mechanic, too?

Boot commented

2024-03-13 14:41:56 +00:00

What I really wanted to say is that with the right tactics, we can defeat Voice. While weapons are important, the right tactics are much more important. This includes determining the location and course of the battle yourself, exploiting the terrain, building and using sensible defensive fortifications.

Boot commented

2024-03-13 14:47:23 +00:00

Addendum: the most important thing is good cooperation. This starts with sensible announcements. If they are already without content, I don't even need to draw my sword and leave the field to others who don't want to take the time for communication and consultation. Maybe I'm too harsh in my judgment. Maybe it's because it takes me a little longer to understand the chat. Perhaps.

rewired_X commented

2024-03-13 16:53:40 +00:00

Of course it is a balancing thing. There are all kinds of knobs and buttons we can use to not let this get out of hand. Would any of these help?
Imagine there was a grenade type weapon that could stun enemies, but only once per enemy, then they learn to adapt.

Imagine there was only a chance to get a monster stunned, with higher (monsterlevel, remaining hitpoints, ... ) $somestat it becomes less likely to get it stunned at all.

Imagine THEY get a stun mechanic, too?

all of those would be very interesting to see ngl

"edit 2: general blanket statement, this bug is a suggestion, not a place for yall to talk about voice tactics and what-not. "

my point remains valid and solidified

(that took too many tries)

> Of course it is a balancing thing. There are all kinds of knobs and buttons we can use to not let this get out of hand. Would any of these help? Imagine there was a grenade type weapon that could stun enemies, but only once per enemy, then they learn to adapt. > Imagine there was only a chance to get a monster stunned, with higher (monsterlevel, remaining hitpoints, ... ) $somestat it becomes less likely to get it stunned at all. > Imagine THEY get a stun mechanic, too? all of those would be very interesting to see ngl >"edit 2: general blanket statement, this bug is a suggestion, not a place for yall to talk about voice tactics and what-not. " my point remains valid and solidified (that took too many tries)

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