ModTron reports: the whole issue why chat color ... #6005

New Issue

yourland-report · 2024-01-18T10:40:43Z

yourland-report commented

2024-01-18 10:40:43 +00:00

ModTron reports a bug:

the whole issue why chat colors keep being asked for is readability - for any staff that need to, come on with a non-priv account and see how hard it is to read chat... just having an accent color every 10 lines would make it much more readable or even a space... anything to break it up a little.

A wall of text is proven hard to read though and it really is. However staff DOES depend on colors to notice things going on, so a solution is tricky.

Player position:

{
	x = 2081.6040039063,
	y = -22.499000549316,
	z = 1624.1989746094
}

Player look:

{
	x = -0.2439850717783,
	y = 0.12723772227764,
	z = -0.96139580011368
}

Player information:

{
	protocol_version = 42,
	formspec_version = 7,
	lang_code = "",
	ip_version = 6,
	min_rtt = 0.15999999642372,
	avg_rtt = 0.17200000584126,
	min_jitter = 0,
	max_jitter = 2.7589998245239,
	avg_jitter = 0,
	connection_uptime = 41883,
	serialization_version = 29,
	major = 5,
	version_string = "5.8.0",
	state = "Active",
	minor = 8,
	max_rtt = 2.933000087738,
	patch = 0
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		punch_count = "4",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "62",
		inflicted_damage = "52",
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = -2, [\"z\"] = 1498, [\"x\"] = 2046}}",
		played_time = "134309",
		yl_commons_player_created = "1705337208",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1705532580",
		died = "1",
		xp = "5",
		jointime = "1705337208",
		bitten = "0",
		hud_state = "on",
		["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_small\"}",
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 100\", \"\"}",
		yl_commons_thankyou = "4",
		["stamina:level"] = "4",
		repellant = "0",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = 5XAJvfJsngxymzeGCmCDCCT7ExwohTsO

Profiler save:

profile-20240118T104043.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 17h 46min 17s | max lag: 0.331s | clients (9/52): Administrator, AliasAlreadyTaken, Aliza, Bailiff, daydream, ModTron, Murmel, Naan, Penelopee

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz 2082 -22 1624

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction 5XAJvfJsngxymzeGCmCDCCT7ExwohTsO D2691E 2082 -22 1624

ModTron reports a bug: > the whole issue why chat colors keep being asked for is readability - for any staff that need to, come on with a non-priv account and see how hard it is to read chat... just having an accent color every 10 lines would make it much more readable or even a space... anything to break it up a little. A wall of text is proven hard to read though and it really is. However staff DOES depend on colors to notice things going on, so a solution is tricky. Player position: ``` { x = 2081.6040039063, y = -22.499000549316, z = 1624.1989746094 } ``` Player look: ``` { x = -0.2439850717783, y = 0.12723772227764, z = -0.96139580011368 } ``` Player information: ``` { protocol_version = 42, formspec_version = 7, lang_code = "", ip_version = 6, min_rtt = 0.15999999642372, avg_rtt = 0.17200000584126, min_jitter = 0, max_jitter = 2.7589998245239, avg_jitter = 0, connection_uptime = 41883, serialization_version = 29, major = 5, version_string = "5.8.0", state = "Active", minor = 8, max_rtt = 2.933000087738, patch = 0 } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { punch_count = "4", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "62", inflicted_damage = "52", yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"y\"] = -2, [\"z\"] = 1498, [\"x\"] = 2046}}", played_time = "134309", yl_commons_player_created = "1705337208", yl_commons_player_joined = "1705532580", died = "1", xp = "5", jointime = "1705337208", bitten = "0", hud_state = "on", ["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_small\"}", ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"\", \"\", \"\", \"\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 100\", \"\"}", yl_commons_thankyou = "4", ["stamina:level"] = "4", repellant = "0", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = 5XAJvfJsngxymzeGCmCDCCT7ExwohTsO ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20240118T104043.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 17h 46min 17s | max lag: 0.331s | clients (9/52): Administrator, AliasAlreadyTaken, Aliza, Bailiff, daydream, ModTron, Murmel, Naan, Penelopee ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz 2082 -22 1624 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction 5XAJvfJsngxymzeGCmCDCCT7ExwohTsO D2691E 2082 -22 1624 ```

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2024-01-18 10:40:43 +00:00

rewired_X commented

2024-01-18 12:43:06 +00:00

there is a client-side mod called colour_chat for this feature, but since its cilent-side I can understand any hesitation to use it since anyone can hack into it and do whatever they want

there *is* a client-side mod called colour_chat for this feature, but since its cilent-side I can understand any hesitation to use it since anyone can hack into it and do whatever they want

whosit commented

2024-01-18 13:18:24 +00:00

Major issue with chat is just lack of line spacing. Look at the space between lines in that chat: it's less than space between words.
I will just steal this example from wikipedia page on leading:

Default minetest is closest to the first example:

Next issue is: names are not separated clearly visually from the rest of the text, some additional spacing/symbols may work.

To better show names, I suggest coloring them. Could be done with randomly assigned colors, but I guess we're waiting on yl_settings for that... Visually marking lines with colored names should make it easier for eyes to find specific lines and follow them.

Major issue with chat is just lack of line spacing. Look at the space between lines in that chat: it's less than space between words. I will just steal this example from [wikipedia page on leading](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading#Examples): ![Screenshot 2024-01-18 160313.png](/attachments/f614c75b-1f41-42fa-b5b2-034f03b4ab77) Default minetest is closest to the first example: ![Screenshot 2024-01-18 161030.png](/attachments/dd357345-eeb5-49da-9f21-2313b84d8c16) Next issue is: names are not separated clearly visually from the rest of the text, some additional spacing/symbols may work. To better show names, I suggest coloring them. Could be done with randomly assigned colors, but I guess we're waiting on yl_settings for that... Visually marking lines with colored names should make it easier for eyes to find specific lines and follow them. ![sim](attachments/1068f4a8-b9e5-4054-b76c-907f27b271cd)

Screenshot 2024-01-18 160313.png

105 KiB

Screenshot 2024-01-18 161030.png

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Screenshot 2024-01-18 161030.png

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Bla commented

2024-01-18 13:36:58 +00:00

there is a client-side mod called colour_chat for this feature, but since its cilent-side

CSM(client side scripting) mods use is disabled on YL, so even if you have it installed it won´t work on the official client.

I can understand any hesitation to use it since anyone can hack into it and do whatever they want

Can you prove that? If not you shouldn´t spread such wild unproven claims.

> there *is* a client-side mod called colour_chat for this feature, but since its cilent-side CSM(client side scripting) mods use is disabled on YL, so even if you have it installed it won´t work on the official client. > I can understand any hesitation to use it since anyone can hack into it and do whatever they want Can you prove that? If not you shouldn´t spread such wild unproven claims.

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

1. kind/enhancement

label 2024-01-18 15:19:36 +00:00

rewired_X commented

2024-01-18 17:35:03 +00:00

Returning to the original issue at hand (since I'm not falling for the rabbit hole) maybe the line spacing thing could be proposed upstream to see if anyone else likes it there?

(and also theoretically it is possible to take a client-side mod, inject whatever you want, and then use it on other servers, but im not getting into that mess.)

Returning to the original issue at hand (since I'm not falling for the rabbit hole) maybe the line spacing thing could be proposed upstream to see if anyone else likes it there? (and also theoretically it is possible to take a client-side mod, inject whatever you want, and then use it on other servers, but im not getting into that mess.)

Bla commented

2024-01-18 17:59:27 +00:00

so still unproven, fine be me 😜 🍿

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-01-18 18:03:20 +00:00

Part of yl_chat is that ones own name is highlighted when someone mentions it and that your own chatlines look different than the others

Boot commented

2024-01-18 19:11:43 +00:00

To improve legibility, it helped me to increase the number of lines (to 8) in the chat in the settings, as well as the font size (to 20), which of course also increases the absolute line spacing.

What might also help is to use a more legible font in the advanced settings:

Carlito is a modern, friendly sans-serif font, metric-compatible with Microsoft Fonts Calibri font. https://github.com/googlefonts/carlito

Andika’s design takes into account the needs of beginning readers. The focus is on clear, easy-to-perceive letterforms that will not be readily confused with one another. https://software.sil.org/andika/

Please, please try it all out before you suddenly change the colors in the chat.

I already think it's way too garish. I find the flashiness of messages from a private chat in the public chat really bad. This should be defused urgently, to a gentle DEB887 if you like. Even the intrusive staff green could rather become a muted BDB76B. Just try in this direction. All colors should be much more pastel and not so garish.

To improve legibility, it helped me to increase the number of lines (to 8) in the chat in the settings, as well as the font size (to 20), which of course also increases the absolute line spacing. What might also help is to use a more legible font in the advanced settings: > Carlito is a modern, friendly sans-serif font, metric-compatible with Microsoft Fonts Calibri font. https://github.com/googlefonts/carlito > Andika’s design takes into account the needs of beginning readers. The focus is on clear, easy-to-perceive letterforms that will not be readily confused with one another. https://software.sil.org/andika/ Please, please try it all out before you suddenly change the colors in the chat. I already think it's way too garish. I find the flashiness of messages from a private chat in the public chat really bad. This should be defused urgently, to a gentle DEB887 if you like. Even the intrusive staff green could rather become a muted BDB76B. Just try in this direction. All colors should be much more pastel and not so garish.

whosit commented

2024-01-18 19:41:16 +00:00

The ideal solution is: more ways to customize chat. All people have different tastes, and more importantly, different accessibility needs...

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flux commented

2024-01-20 04:07:41 +00:00

for reference, i run my own CSM which lets me categorize people (by how well i know them, if they are a problem, how privileged they are on the server, or whether they're a major engine or mod dev), and use that to apply colors to highlight the chat. it's very idiosyncratic. but maybe we could create a similar system where players can define categories for players, and place various players in those categories?

highlighting the name is part of it, but highlighting the text is also done, but more subtly. and server messages, and anything mentioning me is highlighted differently.

for reference, i run my own CSM which lets me categorize people (by how well i know them, if they are a problem, how privileged they are on the server, or whether they're a major engine or mod dev), and use that to apply colors to highlight the chat. it's very idiosyncratic. but maybe we could create a similar system where players can define categories for players, and place various players in those categories? ![image](/attachments/fd2707cf-fba8-495c-a6eb-5cc4ebf0cdb6) highlighting the name is part of it, but highlighting the text is also done, but more subtly. and server messages, and anything mentioning *me* is highlighted differently.

image.png

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AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2024-01-20 15:03:06 +00:00

Is planned for your-land/administration#76

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