Sokomine reports: smalls, micros and land guards ... #4800

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yourland-report · 2023-06-19T19:29:48Z

yourland-report commented

2023-06-19 19:29:48 +00:00

Sokomine reports a bug:

smalls, micros and land guards ought to be forbidden from planting oaks. they're just too big and take too long to remove

Player position:

{
	z = 1372.5910644531,
	x = 3591.421875,
	y = 55.5
}

Player look:

{
	z = 0.094116650521755,
	x = -0.97743791341782,
	y = 0.1890954375267
}

Player information:

{
	formspec_version = 6,
	min_rtt = 0.01799999922514,
	avg_rtt = 0.018999999389052,
	min_jitter = 0,
	protocol_version = 42,
	avg_jitter = 0,
	connection_uptime = 1121,
	serialization_version = 29,
	patch = 0,
	lang_code = "",
	major = 5,
	version_string = "5.8.0-dev-edcbfa31c-dirty",
	minor = 8,
	state = "Active",
	max_rtt = 6.6170001029968,
	max_jitter = 6.5269999504089,
	ip_version = 6
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"water_life:croc_bag\"}",
		yl_commons_player_created = "1617905120",
		repellant = "0",
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"z\"] = 1520, [\"x\"] = 3959, [\"y\"] = 30}, [\"last_heal\"] = 1673909657, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1686952154}",
		yl_commons_thankyou = "445",
		jointime = "1617905120",
		bitten = "0",
		["ethereal:fly_timer"] = "-99",
		played_time = "14215898",
		digged_nodes = "1933820",
		placed_nodes = "327828",
		died = "46",
		crafted = "595625",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1687201892",
		["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.65032e+09",
		["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "5",
		["stamina:level"] = "18",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "59.5",
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"\", \"3d_armor:helmet_rainbow 1 720\", \"shields:shield_rainbow 1 720\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_rainbow 1 720\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 1800\", \"3d_armor:leggings_rainbow 1 720\"}",
		arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0",
		xp = "2172790",
		hud_state = "on",
		["signslib:pos"] = "(1576,-54,301)",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no",
		punch_count = "270908",
		partychat = "main",
		inflicted_damage = "5672136"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = Py73QUhG8o2hBcLafHZDJFL2gcA9Cd3o

Profiler save:

profile-20230619T192948.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 6d 2h 33min 6s | max lag: 2.02s | clients (30/52): AliasAlreadyTaken, Bailiff, betzi, bizon, BoatMow, BobaCat, Buzz, CatLInA31, ChickenBro2, DragonWrangler1, Ernesto, flux, Gorm, gustavo1, Kadax, Kalek, laira, LCB, mahou, MineWorlds, msr, Murmel, Nodes, Qualia, rewired_X, Service, Shadow, shanish2, Sokomine, StingadaUhu

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz 3591 56 1373

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction Py73QUhG8o2hBcLafHZDJFL2gcA9Cd3o D2691E 3591 56 1373

Sokomine reports a bug: > smalls, micros and land guards ought to be forbidden from planting oaks. they're just too big and take too long to remove Player position: ``` { z = 1372.5910644531, x = 3591.421875, y = 55.5 } ``` Player look: ``` { z = 0.094116650521755, x = -0.97743791341782, y = 0.1890954375267 } ``` Player information: ``` { formspec_version = 6, min_rtt = 0.01799999922514, avg_rtt = 0.018999999389052, min_jitter = 0, protocol_version = 42, avg_jitter = 0, connection_uptime = 1121, serialization_version = 29, patch = 0, lang_code = "", major = 5, version_string = "5.8.0-dev-edcbfa31c-dirty", minor = 8, state = "Active", max_rtt = 6.6170001029968, max_jitter = 6.5269999504089, ip_version = 6 } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { ["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"water_life:croc_bag\"}", yl_commons_player_created = "1617905120", repellant = "0", yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"z\"] = 1520, [\"x\"] = 3959, [\"y\"] = 30}, [\"last_heal\"] = 1673909657, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1686952154}", yl_commons_thankyou = "445", jointime = "1617905120", bitten = "0", ["ethereal:fly_timer"] = "-99", played_time = "14215898", digged_nodes = "1933820", placed_nodes = "327828", died = "46", crafted = "595625", yl_commons_player_joined = "1687201892", ["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.65032e+09", ["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "5", ["stamina:level"] = "18", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "59.5", ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"\", \"3d_armor:helmet_rainbow 1 720\", \"shields:shield_rainbow 1 720\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_rainbow 1 720\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 1800\", \"3d_armor:leggings_rainbow 1 720\"}", arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0", xp = "2172790", hud_state = "on", ["signslib:pos"] = "(1576,-54,301)", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no", punch_count = "270908", partychat = "main", inflicted_damage = "5672136" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = Py73QUhG8o2hBcLafHZDJFL2gcA9Cd3o ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20230619T192948.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.7.0-yl-thx-tmm | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 6d 2h 33min 6s | max lag: 2.02s | clients (30/52): AliasAlreadyTaken, Bailiff, betzi, bizon, BoatMow, BobaCat, Buzz, CatLInA31, ChickenBro2, DragonWrangler1, Ernesto, flux, Gorm, gustavo1, Kadax, Kalek, laira, LCB, mahou, MineWorlds, msr, Murmel, Nodes, Qualia, rewired_X, Service, Shadow, shanish2, Sokomine, StingadaUhu ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz 3591 56 1373 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction Py73QUhG8o2hBcLafHZDJFL2gcA9Cd3o D2691E 3591 56 1373 ```

👍 1

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2023-06-19 19:29:48 +00:00

flux added the

1. kind/balancing

label 2023-06-19 20:04:24 +00:00

Boot commented

2023-06-19 20:46:32 +00:00

Some TNT takes care of that. ;)

sixer commented

2023-06-20 07:55:33 +00:00

Choppy is too slow for them?

Sokomine commented

2023-06-20 16:10:07 +00:00

Even choppy takes ages.

The idea with the TNT is good :-) Some of those mobs even bring their own TNT (at least Overseers sometimes do?). Now the problem remains: How do we get Voice to attack oaks? "Look, Voice! A new castle! No no! It's not just a tree. It's definitely a new type of castle! You have to conquer it! Bring boomblocks."

Even choppy takes ages. The idea with the TNT is good :-) Some of those mobs even bring their own TNT (at least Overseers sometimes do?). Now the problem remains: How do we get Voice to attack oaks? "Look, Voice! A new castle! No no! It's not just a tree. It's definitely a new type of castle! You have to conquer it! Bring boomblocks."

Boot commented

2023-06-22 15:22:47 +00:00

Seriously, how often does it happen that an oak tree is planted? If it's rare, aren't there perhaps players who can make good use of the oak wood and cut it down voluntarily?

Apart from that, the affected city can also somehow pay the loggers for their service. And what about our (re-)construction team? At some point there were even stakes for renaturation in exchange for XP-coins.

Perhaps it would also be worth trying to blow up an oak tree with TNT. Bailiffs could do that.

Seriously, how often does it happen that an oak tree is planted? If it's rare, aren't there perhaps players who can make good use of the oak wood and cut it down voluntarily? Apart from that, the affected city can also somehow pay the loggers for their service. And what about our (re-)construction team? At some point there were even stakes for renaturation in exchange for XP-coins. Perhaps it would also be worth trying to blow up an oak tree with TNT. Bailiffs could do that.

👍 1

flux added the

4. step/discussion

label 2023-06-22 17:04:32 +00:00

sixer commented

2023-06-22 17:41:05 +00:00

Oak yields lot of saplings and also trunks and leaves (=mulch) I can use to plant and grow a forest elsewhere. Let me know if there is an extra oak somewhere you don't want it, I'd happily cut it down and take the parts :)

flux commented

2023-06-23 01:19:53 +00:00

i've been on the fence about this since it was brought up.

on the one hand, yeah, land guards and their derivatives shouldn't grief areas.

on the other, part of their purpose is to replant lost groves.

i feel like they at least need a solution that makes sure there's room for the sapling they're planting, and there's no other nearby saplings. but that might be a totally separate issue.

i've been on the fence about this since it was brought up. on the one hand, yeah, land guards and their derivatives shouldn't grief areas. on the other, part of their purpose is to replant lost groves. i feel like they at least need a solution that makes sure there's room for the sapling they're planting, and there's no other nearby saplings. but that might be a totally separate issue.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-06-23 04:45:57 +00:00

Land guards do not grief areas, they do not do anything to an area if there is a chance the tree might grow into a protected place.

I'd prefer this to have an ingame solution than a code one.

Land guards do not grief areas, they do not do anything to an area if there is a chance the tree might grow into a protected place. I'd prefer this to have an ingame solution than a code one.

sixer commented

2023-06-23 07:15:21 +00:00

I'd prefer this to have an ingame solution than a code one.

For big trees, there may be people willing to cut it down just for the resources they get from it.

> I'd prefer this to have an ingame solution than a code one. For big trees, there may be people willing to cut it down just for the resources they get from it.

flux commented

2023-06-23 17:55:36 +00:00

Land guards do not grief areas, they do not do anything to an area if there is a chance the tree might grow into a protected place.

you are correct, they won't plant things near protected areas, but they do tend to flood areas w/ more saplings than the area can handle. if you say that is intended though, then nevermind :)

> Land guards do not grief areas, they do not do anything to an area if there is a chance the tree might grow into a protected place. you are correct, they won't plant things near protected areas, but they *do* tend to flood areas w/ more saplings than the area can handle. if you say that is intended though, then nevermind :)

flux commented

2023-06-24 00:00:39 +00:00

another option could be to shrink oak trees? they're currently a giant sphere of wood, which i've always found to be quite absurd. they should have less wood and more acorns.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-06-24 03:53:44 +00:00

IMO we should rethink trees altogether, together with the regrow mechanic.

IRL trees do not grow into a giant blob of wood instantly. Trees should have stages of growth that either build on each other, or that replace the previous stage.

IMO we should rethink trees altogether, together with the regrow mechanic. IRL trees do not grow into a giant blob of wood instantly. Trees should have stages of growth that either build on each other, or that replace the previous stage.

👍 3 👎 1

sixer commented

2023-06-24 08:51:20 +00:00

Stages of growth would be most realistic, but also most difficult to handle and with lot of edge conditions (what if the previous stage was altered, like few branches trimmed?) and in case the trees grow too close to each other (so they are touching), you need to track what nodes belong to what tree.

In reality, if trees grow close to each other (a fairly common situation in forests), they somewhat twist their branches together through each other's space. Handling that behavior properly in minetest with nodes - I'd say very difficult to program properly so it will work most of the time without creating some ugly abominations in the landscape.

Trunks are also sometimes used in construction of buildings, so you must also take care not to alter those nodes.

Stages of growth would be most realistic, but also most difficult to handle and with lot of edge conditions (what if the previous stage was altered, like few branches trimmed?) and in case the trees grow too close to each other (so they are touching), you need to track what nodes belong to what tree. In reality, if trees grow close to each other (a fairly common situation in forests), they somewhat twist their branches together through each other's space. Handling that behavior properly in minetest with nodes - I'd say very difficult to program properly so it will work most of the time without creating some ugly abominations in the landscape. Trunks are also sometimes used in construction of buildings, so you must also take care not to alter those nodes.

Sokomine commented

2023-06-26 17:23:44 +00:00

The idea to have more realistic trees - or trees that grow in stages - is very tempting. Yet I'm not convinced that it's a good idea. For gameplay, such an approach would be rather bad. We don't need more lag sources. And replacing/growing trees wouldn't be doable without some kind of load. Doing it nicely could be quit difficult and lag intensive. We have a ton of more intresting things to program.

Yes, some players may be intrested in oak wood and be willing to chop them down. It just takes very long to do so. That can be done for individual oaks, but...landguards love to spam saplings. Especially if they come in the form of a voice attack, but also when a lone landguard wanders around.

I'm not against them planting trees as such. That's fine. Just not too many (nearly every dirt block covered with a sapling = too much) and no oaks (takes too long to remove if not wanted at that location).

If you still want them to plant oaks, perhaps they can really get a special sapling for a much smaller oak. Players could then plant the normal big oaks - and landguards would only place smaller ones. Would require a new tree model - but that shouldn't be such a big problem.

The idea to have more realistic trees - or trees that grow in stages - is very tempting. Yet I'm not convinced that it's a good idea. For gameplay, such an approach would be rather bad. We don't need more lag sources. And replacing/growing trees wouldn't be doable without some kind of load. Doing it nicely could be quit difficult and lag intensive. We have a ton of more intresting things to program. Yes, some players may be intrested in oak wood and be willing to chop them down. It just takes very long to do so. That can be done for individual oaks, but...landguards love to *spam* saplings. Especially if they come in the form of a voice attack, but also when a lone landguard wanders around. I'm not against them planting trees as such. That's fine. Just not too many (nearly every dirt block covered with a sapling = too much) and no oaks (takes too long to remove if not wanted at that location). If you still want them to plant oaks, perhaps they can really get a special sapling for a much smaller oak. Players could then plant the normal big oaks - and landguards would only place smaller ones. Would require a new tree model - but that shouldn't be such a big problem.

flux commented

2023-06-26 21:22:00 +00:00

this shouldn't devolve into a discussion of the planned tree growth mechanic, which is quite a ways in the future.

some concrete proposals on how to keep land-guards from over-populating an area during a voice invasion:

prevent a sapling from being placed if there is already a tree or sapling within 2 or 3 nodes of the potential location
check line-of-sight between the potential location of the sapling, and the 4 upper corners of the cubic area we expect the tree to fill
when choosing a sapling to place, weight the choices to the inverse of the expected volume of the tree
instead of only disallowing planting when the the landguard is attacking something, restrict them from planting unless they are actually standing still.

this shouldn't devolve into a discussion of the planned tree growth mechanic, which is quite a ways in the future. some concrete proposals on how to keep land-guards from over-populating an area during a voice invasion: * prevent a sapling from being placed if there is already a tree or sapling within 2 or 3 nodes of the potential location * check line-of-sight between the potential location of the sapling, and the 4 upper corners of the cubic area we expect the tree to fill * when choosing a sapling to place, weight the choices to the inverse of the expected volume of the tree * instead of only disallowing planting when the the landguard is attacking something, restrict them from planting unless they are actually standing still.

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