Azelf reports: Massive artifical sequoia jung ... #4355

New Issue

yourland-report · 2023-04-30T01:17:07Z

yourland-report commented

2023-04-30 01:17:07 +00:00

Azelf reports a bug:

Massive artifical sequoia jungle created by sixer

Player position:

{
	x = 3384.4050292969,
	y = 34.5,
	z = 885.96795654297
}

Player look:

{
	x = 0.74743896722794,
	y = -0.14780940115452,
	z = 0.64767843484879
}

Player information:

{
	formspec_version = 6,
	major = 5,
	version_string = "5.7.0",
	protocol_version = 41,
	minor = 7,
	state = "Active",
	max_rtt = 2.1700000762939,
	lang_code = "",
	ip_version = 6,
	min_rtt = 0.16400000452995,
	avg_rtt = 0.16500000655651,
	min_jitter = 0,
	max_jitter = 1.9940000772476,
	avg_jitter = 0.00099998712539673,
	connection_uptime = 883,
	serialization_version = 29,
	patch = 0
}

Player meta:

{
	fields = {
		yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"x\"] = -1008, [\"y\"] = 137, [\"z\"] = 4587}, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1682773999, [\"last_heal\"] = 1678197363}",
		crafted = "146222",
		repellant = "0",
		xp = "521879",
		["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.67602e+09",
		arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0",
		["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "11",
		["stamina:level"] = "16",
		["stamina:poisoned"] = "no",
		died = "84",
		["stamina:exhaustion"] = "129",
		yl_unified_trash_review = "return {\"vessels:glass_bottle\", \"ethereal:bananaleaves\", \"ethereal:orange_leaves 2\", \"farming:bowl\"}",
		jointime = "1659363683",
		bitten = "0",
		placed_nodes = "137355",
		inflicted_damage = "3494572",
		partychat = "party",
		["signslib:pos"] = "(151,-4161,-3062)",
		punch_count = "162504",
		yl_commons_player_created = "1659363683",
		yl_commons_player_joined = "1682816559",
		["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\"}",
		["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"\", \"3d_armor:leggings_rainbow 1 8312\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_rainbow 1 8312\", \"shields:shield_rainbow 1 8312\", \"3d_armor:helmet_rainbow 1 8312\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 20780\"}",
		hud_state = "on",
		played_time = "2626830",
		digged_nodes = "370333",
		yl_commons_thankyou = "42"
	}
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = U2Qkw7vkLdqtwlcqhFK11cIAkaZlz06D

Profiler save:

profile-20230430T011707.json_prettyEE

Status:

# Server: version: 5.6.1-yl | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 13h 38min 34s | max lag: 1.01s | clients (30/52): AliasAlreadyTaken, Aliza, AlphaDraconis, Azelf, Bailiff, BibaBoba, caboy, Chache, copper248, daydream, Dirac, Ernesto, fellow, flux, Halvar, Justice, Kadax, labrat, MicaelStarfire, MineWorlds, mr_block, niceride, popefox20, rewired_X, rheo, Scathach, Service, Sokomine, Therottenpotato, Transformers

Teleport command:

/teleport xyz 3384 35 886

Compass command:

/give_compass Construction U2Qkw7vkLdqtwlcqhFK11cIAkaZlz06D D2691E 3384 35 886

Azelf reports a bug: > Massive artifical sequoia jungle created by sixer Player position: ``` { x = 3384.4050292969, y = 34.5, z = 885.96795654297 } ``` Player look: ``` { x = 0.74743896722794, y = -0.14780940115452, z = 0.64767843484879 } ``` Player information: ``` { formspec_version = 6, major = 5, version_string = "5.7.0", protocol_version = 41, minor = 7, state = "Active", max_rtt = 2.1700000762939, lang_code = "", ip_version = 6, min_rtt = 0.16400000452995, avg_rtt = 0.16500000655651, min_jitter = 0, max_jitter = 1.9940000772476, avg_jitter = 0.00099998712539673, connection_uptime = 883, serialization_version = 29, patch = 0 } ``` Player meta: ``` { fields = { yl_church = "return {[\"last_death\"] = {[\"x\"] = -1008, [\"y\"] = 137, [\"z\"] = 4587}, [\"last_death_portal\"] = 1682773999, [\"last_heal\"] = 1678197363}", crafted = "146222", repellant = "0", xp = "521879", ["ocean_build.last_warning"] = "1.67602e+09", arenalib_infobox_arenaID = "0", ["ocean_build.ocean_built"] = "11", ["stamina:level"] = "16", ["stamina:poisoned"] = "no", died = "84", ["stamina:exhaustion"] = "129", yl_unified_trash_review = "return {\"vessels:glass_bottle\", \"ethereal:bananaleaves\", \"ethereal:orange_leaves 2\", \"farming:bowl\"}", jointime = "1659363683", bitten = "0", placed_nodes = "137355", inflicted_damage = "3494572", partychat = "party", ["signslib:pos"] = "(151,-4161,-3062)", punch_count = "162504", yl_commons_player_created = "1659363683", yl_commons_player_joined = "1682816559", ["unified_inventory:bags"] = "return {\"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\", \"unified_inventory:bag_large\"}", ["3d_armor_inventory"] = "return {\"\", \"3d_armor:leggings_rainbow 1 8312\", \"3d_armor:chestplate_rainbow 1 8312\", \"shields:shield_rainbow 1 8312\", \"3d_armor:helmet_rainbow 1 8312\", \"3d_armor:boots_crystal 1 20780\"}", hud_state = "on", played_time = "2626830", digged_nodes = "370333", yl_commons_thankyou = "42" } } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = U2Qkw7vkLdqtwlcqhFK11cIAkaZlz06D ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20230430T011707.json_prettyEE ``` Status: ``` # Server: version: 5.6.1-yl | game: Minetest Game | uptime: 13h 38min 34s | max lag: 1.01s | clients (30/52): AliasAlreadyTaken, Aliza, AlphaDraconis, Azelf, Bailiff, BibaBoba, caboy, Chache, copper248, daydream, Dirac, Ernesto, fellow, flux, Halvar, Justice, Kadax, labrat, MicaelStarfire, MineWorlds, mr_block, niceride, popefox20, rewired_X, rheo, Scathach, Service, Sokomine, Therottenpotato, Transformers ``` Teleport command: ``` /teleport xyz 3384 35 886 ``` Compass command: ``` /give_compass Construction U2Qkw7vkLdqtwlcqhFK11cIAkaZlz06D D2691E 3384 35 886 ```

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2023-04-30 01:17:07 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

1. kind/construction

1. kind/griefing

labels 2023-04-30 01:18:06 +00:00

sixer commented

2023-04-30 07:30:19 +00:00

Is that forest extending to parts where it is causing issues? I can mow some of the trees down again if you think they are blocking construction or something...

Sokomine commented

2023-04-30 11:17:18 +00:00

Can you please explain why you planted that forrest there? Just explain. There may be good reasons :-)

It's sadly making Miocene moves way more difficult. Voice even commented on it (see my latest book).

Can you please explain why you planted that forrest there? Just explain. There may be good reasons :-) It's sadly making Miocene moves way more difficult. Voice even commented on it (see my latest book).

sixer commented

2023-04-30 14:32:18 +00:00

I'll check the book on Monday evening when I get back to civilization and reliable internet. Where can I find the book?

Reason were mainly aesthetic (I like forests with big dense trees) and by putting in near miocene path, I hoped to make it more interesting, as you'll have to pass through short section of dense forest, maybe fearing of ambush that I thought the voice a.i. will likely not do anyway.

In last move I took part of (and I admit was not able to complete due to combination of weak hardware and inappropriate client settings at that time) there was lot of long boring walking in monotonous open snow fields and not much fights.

Making moves harder was not intention, so I'll have to change the forest. Question is, if it could stay in some reduced and/or altered form (reducing area, adding path with some lights through, ... ?) or has to be removed completely.

I can do the alterations on Monday evening after getting back home.

I'll check the book on Monday evening when I get back to civilization and reliable internet. Where can I find the book? Reason were mainly aesthetic (I like forests with big dense trees) and by putting in near miocene path, I hoped to make it more interesting, as you'll have to pass through short section of dense forest, maybe fearing of ambush that I thought the voice a.i. will likely not do anyway. In last move I took part of (and I admit was not able to complete due to combination of weak hardware and inappropriate client settings at that time) there was lot of long boring walking in monotonous open snow fields and not much fights. Making moves harder was not intention, so I'll have to change the forest. Question is, if it could stay in some reduced and/or altered form (reducing area, adding path with some lights through, ... ?) or has to be removed completely. I can do the alterations on Monday evening after getting back home.

Sokomine commented

2023-04-30 18:43:44 +00:00

The book can be found in the usual bookshelves - Buttercups' library, Voice library in town hall and Honeys' bookshelf. At least I asked Alias to place it in all three.

Aesthetic...yes, the foorest does look pleasant. That's mainly the reason why we asked and didn't dismiss it as griefing.

More intresting....hmmmm. Perhaps, as you wrote that you had to leave you missed all the action. We don't need harder Miocene moves. They're already too hard and we're trying to find ways to make them smoother. The action lately took place on the snow fields in front of frosthall - further down the path than your forrest.

The monotonous open snow fields are the perfect place for weak hardware. All those trees, leaves and vegetation make it harder for clients to cope with.

Apart from the Miocene liking snow and refusing to land on saplings or vegetation, there's also Micros and Smalls that can't resist planting random, not to the biome fitting saplings wherever they can. On the snow fields they can't. The amount of non-fitting sapling types is so diverse that a player's inventory is too small to hold that many diffrent ones. So moves through areas with dirt are problematic. Smalls and Micros just spam too many saplings. And the growing forrest is too chaotic to let it be.

The last fights were so intense that my internet connection got overwhelmed. My computer is now fast enough to handle it - but my internet connection isn't. I had to go down to a view range of 20 (normal outside Haven: 400) and even then didn't always receive updates of positions of all enemys nearby. Getting an overview was impossible, and fighting difficult in this situation.

Trouble is that all those protected areas in the area already make it very hard to move the Miocene through. Additional obstacles aren't really welcome, and under diffrent circumstances (without you having to give up even before the actual action), I'd say you volunteered as shepherd (with the sour thought that you can deal with all the extra work you're causing the shepherds). All those players who loose tons of XP (it's even over 10k XP loss per death for me, and I'm not even on the highscore list anymore) might not be overly pleased either.

On the other hand too smooth moves appear to bore our fighters. Doing a quick move and mopping up all the mobs afterwards still means moving at lesat 40 minutes next to the Miocene without (hopefully on the shepherds's part - not so hopefully on the fighters' part who get bored?) overly much to do. Sticking close to the Miocene and not moving about and engaging every enemy that shows up is crucial to the success of the mission as such.

So not all of the problems the quest has are caused by the forrest. But it doesn't make things easier.

On the other hand I like how the forrest looks like. But then...people settling down there would be rather bad right now (more unwanted protections in the area!).

As the trees have high trunks with leaves starting high above, plastering the area with lights on the tree trunks and having the ground be snow (no sneaky saplings blocking miocene!) might help. But would it then be the same forrest? We may try that as a temporary measure.

At least we learned that Voice and the dragon are not on the same side. That's some new information.

The book can be found in the usual bookshelves - Buttercups' library, Voice library in town hall and Honeys' bookshelf. At least I asked Alias to place it in all three. Aesthetic...yes, the foorest does look pleasant. That's mainly the reason why we asked and didn't dismiss it as griefing. More intresting....hmmmm. Perhaps, as you wrote that you had to leave you missed all the action. We don't need *harder* Miocene moves. They're already too hard and we're trying to find ways to make them smoother. The action lately took place on the snow fields in front of frosthall - further down the path than your forrest. The monotonous open snow fields are the perfect place for weak hardware. All those trees, leaves and vegetation make it harder for clients to cope with. Apart from the Miocene liking snow and refusing to land on saplings or vegetation, there's also Micros and Smalls that can't resist planting random, not to the biome fitting saplings wherever they can. On the snow fields they can't. The amount of non-fitting sapling types is so diverse that a player's inventory is too small to hold that many diffrent ones. So moves through areas with dirt are problematic. Smalls and Micros just spam too many saplings. And the growing forrest is too chaotic to let it be. The last fights were so intense that my internet connection got overwhelmed. My computer is now fast enough to handle it - but my internet connection isn't. I had to go down to a view range of 20 (normal outside Haven: 400) and even then didn't always receive updates of positions of all enemys nearby. Getting an overview was impossible, and fighting difficult in this situation. Trouble is that all those protected areas in the area already make it very hard to move the Miocene through. Additional obstacles aren't really welcome, and under diffrent circumstances (without you having to give up even before the actual action), I'd say you volunteered as shepherd (with the sour thought that you can deal with all the extra work you're causing the shepherds). All those players who loose tons of XP (it's even over 10k XP loss per death for me, and I'm not even on the highscore list anymore) might not be overly pleased either. On the other hand too smooth moves appear to bore our fighters. Doing a quick move and mopping up all the mobs afterwards still means moving at lesat 40 minutes next to the Miocene without (hopefully on the shepherds's part - not so hopefully on the fighters' part who get bored?) overly much to do. Sticking close to the Miocene and not moving about and engaging every enemy that shows up is crucial to the success of the mission as such. So not all of the problems the quest has are caused by the forrest. But it doesn't make things easier. On the other hand I like how the forrest looks like. But then...people settling down there would be rather bad right now (more unwanted protections in the area!). As the trees have high trunks with leaves starting high above, plastering the area with lights on the tree trunks and having the ground be snow (no sneaky saplings blocking miocene!) might help. But would it then be the same forrest? We may try that as a temporary measure. At least we learned that Voice and the dragon are *not* on the same side. That's some new information.

flux commented

2023-05-01 05:51:52 +00:00

@sixer the placement of the forest feels intentionally obstructive, and your recent comments on how game mechanics could be used to inhibit miocene moves bring your motives into suspicion. trying to "improve the aesthetics of the area" is an excuse i am inherently suspicious of, if it fundamentally changes the aesthetics of the area. the troll MarseySeether used that as an excuse for dumping lava onto lots of players builds and unprotected areas.

in this issue, we'd like to hear your response to this, but separate from that, we're going to have a discussion about whether it's desired and appropriate to admin-remove all the sequoia trees from that area. if we decide the trees need to go, it's almost trivial for us to remove them - no need to attempt it on your own.

you do seem interested in contributing positively, if your comments here are anything to go on, but we need to get to know each other better and make the expectations of the server clearer.

@sixer the placement of the forest feels intentionally obstructive, and [your recent comments on how game mechanics could be used to inhibit miocene moves](https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/bugtracker/issues/4254#issuecomment-47607) bring your motives into suspicion. trying to "improve the aesthetics of the area" is an excuse i am inherently suspicious of, if it fundamentally changes the aesthetics of the area. [the troll MarseySeether used that as an excuse for dumping lava onto lots of players builds and unprotected areas](https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/bugtracker/issues?type=all&state=closed&labels=&milestone=0&project=0&assignee=0&poster=0&q=MarseySeether+griefed). in this issue, we'd like to hear your response to this, but separate from that, we're going to have a discussion about whether it's desired and appropriate to admin-remove all the sequoia trees from that area. if we decide the trees need to go, it's almost trivial for us to remove them - no need to attempt it on your own. you do seem interested in contributing positively, if your comments here are anything to go on, but we need to get to know each other better and make the expectations of the server clearer.

sixer commented

2023-05-01 07:33:05 +00:00

I had no idea that micros can plant saplings (do they also use mulch or other means to grow a tree fast?), but I have encountered them only on snow so far.

I wonder, if you can build either a underground tunnel or a safe walled-off corridor or bridge (possibly preventing non-flying monsters to attack?) to help when moving miocene through some areas.

Ice path as sugfested through the forest will look weird, but cobble path with occasional lanterns may look good and ease the passage.

But I think I'll rather refrain from building anything near the route until I take part in few moves and be familiar in all the mechanics, to avoid the build having unintended consequences.

flux: I tried to make the move more interesting by passing it through a different forest biome and not endless boring snow plains. there are no protection, open pits, hidden traps or other surprises ... just trees. I have not realized it would make the move way more difficult as sokomine describes.

If the final verdict would be the trees can stay, but with adjustments (create path thru?) or reduction of area, I can make the necessary changes. Even with removal I can help (with choppy it is fairly easy to remove only new trees and preserve original vegetation, but if you know of faster way ...)

I had no idea that micros can plant saplings (do they also use mulch or other means to grow a tree fast?), but I have encountered them only on snow so far. I wonder, if you can build either a underground tunnel or a safe walled-off corridor or bridge (possibly preventing non-flying monsters to attack?) to help when moving miocene through some areas. Ice path as sugfested through the forest will look weird, but cobble path with occasional lanterns may look good and ease the passage. But I think I'll rather refrain from building anything near the route until I take part in few moves and be familiar in all the mechanics, to avoid the build having unintended consequences. flux: I tried to make the move more interesting by passing it through a different forest biome and not endless boring snow plains. there are no protection, open pits, hidden traps or other surprises ... just trees. I have not realized it would make the move way more difficult as sokomine describes. If the final verdict would be the trees can stay, but with adjustments (create path thru?) or reduction of area, I can make the necessary changes. Even with removal I can help (with choppy it is fairly easy to remove only new trees and preserve original vegetation, but if you know of faster way ...)

Murmel commented

2023-05-01 13:41:54 +00:00

Well that's not the only forest build by sixer: #4372.
As far as I understood the main rule of this server, it is not expected to do anything anywhere that makes other players unhappy.
To be sure, it would be a good idea to talk ~~with~~to other players before building.

Well that's not the only forest build by sixer: [#4372](https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/bugtracker/issues/4372). As far as I understood the main rule of this server, it is not expected to do anything anywhere that makes other players unhappy. To be sure, it would be a good idea to talk ~~with~~to other players *before* building.

👍 1

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-05-06 21:31:43 +00:00

I removed the forest on the miocene route via worldedit. I doubt sixer will attempt something similar again without consent of the stakeholders ;)

AliasAlreadyTaken closed this issue

2023-05-06 21:31:43 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

5. result/fixed

label 2023-05-06 21:31:50 +00:00

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