Exclusive zones vs. public utilities #3980

Open
opened 2023-03-12 21:54:39 +00:00 by Ravise · 2 comments

I'd like to discuss balancing of exclusive zones (the thing near protected areas, where more protected areas may be only created with consent of the original owner) and building and maintaining public (server-wide) utilties.

I built stone platforms near Frosthall for the purpose of moving tribe miocene over them. Ladders were also placed on a bit of steep cliff so that players are able to get up and down as needed. They were built outside city protection, but well within it's exclusive zone. Around 2023-03-12, they (both platforms and ladders) disappeared without replacement.

I'd like to get some opinions and server's consensus about:

  1. what area owners "should" and "shouldn't need to" tolerate in their exclusive zones
  2. how area owners should react to things in their exclusive zones
  3. how should public utilities built in a good faith be marked and/or announced to area owners.
I'd like to discuss balancing of exclusive zones (the thing near protected areas, where more protected areas may be only created with consent of the original owner) and building and maintaining public (server-wide) utilties. I built stone platforms near Frosthall for the purpose of moving tribe miocene over them. Ladders were also placed on a bit of steep cliff so that players are able to get up and down as needed. They were built outside city protection, but well within it's exclusive zone. Around 2023-03-12, they (both platforms and ladders) disappeared without replacement. I'd like to get some opinions and server's consensus about: 1. what area owners "should" and "shouldn't need to" tolerate in their exclusive zones 2. how area owners should react to things in their exclusive zones 3. how should public utilities built in a good faith be marked and/or announced to area owners.
Member

i certainly make an effort to "clean up" the miocene migration area as much as i can; i've removed both ladders and platforms while doing so. none of what i removed seemed like it was part of an intentionally permanent edifice.

i dislike both the "post-pole" and "mini-fort" methods of creating waypoints in the the miocene moving process; i'd rather there be a network of boring roads.

poles and towers and mini-forts result in voice mobs building on top of them and using them, and it's a huge pain to clear those.

i certainly make an effort to "clean up" the miocene migration area as much as i can; i've removed both ladders and platforms while doing so. none of what i removed seemed like it was part of an intentionally permanent edifice. i dislike both the "post-pole" and "mini-fort" methods of creating waypoints in the the miocene moving process; i'd rather there be a network of boring roads. poles and towers and mini-forts result in voice mobs building on top of them and using them, and it's a huge pain to clear those.
AliasAlreadyTaken added the
1. kind/documentation
4. step/discussion
1. kind/protocol
labels 2023-03-13 13:04:52 +00:00
Member

I'm afraid this case is more complicated. While this issue addresses a problem, it's not really the most pressing in this regard.

Up to recently, jackofthebean000 has been extremly tolerant towards Miocene movement through his city. He helped guide us, tolerated one or the other forgotten plattform even in town. He has even built an extra tunnel for the Miocene movement.

During one move, I added more players to the protection so that they could move safely inside while Voice raged outside. The list was getting a bit long by that time, which makes it more difficult for players in the area and/or causes work for the major to hide those subareas.

My error was to grant permissions for the move to a player who had behaved quite well during the move and before but apparently didn't know that beeing added to an area doesn't mean you can change it to your liking without consulting those people who have built it up. The player meant well; the changes done were considered by jackofthebean000 as griefing (and would most likely have been seen so by most of us here). I've talked to the player and explained that it's not ok to change an area without permission and hope that he understood. I had added him so it was my fault.

After our last move yesterday, I removed the new plattforms on the permafrost near Frosthall. Those were placed hastily and didn't have the right distance and start point anyway. We ought to place them again next time (and perhaps remove afterwards).

Thee snow markers next to the volcano are extremly helpful in that tight situation there with protection on one side and an abyss on the other.

The landing plattforms for the descent at the side of Frosthall of course still exist. We need them to move the Miocene down safely (they take dammage when landing too much lower than where they started).

I've cleaned up a bit in the area yesterday as well. But that was only nerdpoles and similar structures built to reach foci - clearly things we don't want to have sitting in the landscape.

poles and towers and mini-forts result in voice mobs building on top of them and using them, and it's a huge pain to clear those.

Hm. That's a factor. I like the mini forts...and if Voice decides to "conquer" one or the other, sure, why not - he doesn't have much success elsewhere. He needs something as well :-) And we can't give him Miocene. He can have one or two fortresses :)

The fortresses didn't seem too big of a problem regarding the foci. But then I only fought a few. Foci love spawning on high points, so your (flux') point of in particular the marker poles attracting foci is understandable. Perhaps Ravise can do a few design changes so that the poles themshelves and the "towers" of the fortresses are less high? The poles are a big help in finding the way to the volcano. Newer shepherds/guides still struggle with that. And of course there's protection making what would be easy with the compass very tricky in some areas.

Perhaps "foci love high points for spawning" can be used by us to attract them to points a bit aside from the route? Bait..poles?

The problem with protection and the Miocene moves ought to be solved. Why does their guide/shepherd need build rights in the area? I had to ask a player to add us to his protection just for that reason, and in Frosthall it went so badly wrong.

Can't "TribeMiocene", "Tribe_Miocene" or "Miocene" (depending on what fits best) be created as a player, be under Alias' control, and players add permissions to their area only for that fake player? The Miocene would then have to check if the area allows them in. But that ought to be doable after a reboot.

I'm afraid this case is more complicated. While this issue addresses a problem, it's not really the most pressing in this regard. Up to recently, jackofthebean000 has been extremly tolerant towards Miocene movement through his city. He helped guide us, tolerated one or the other forgotten plattform even in town. He has even built an extra tunnel for the Miocene movement. During one move, I added more players to the protection so that they could move safely inside while Voice raged outside. The list was getting a bit long by that time, which makes it more difficult for players in the area and/or causes work for the major to hide those subareas. My error was to grant permissions for the move to a player who had behaved quite well during the move and before but apparently didn't know that beeing added to an area doesn't mean you can change it to your liking without consulting those people who have built it up. The player meant well; the changes done were considered by jackofthebean000 as griefing (and would most likely have been seen so by most of us here). I've talked to the player and explained that it's not ok to change an area without permission and hope that he understood. I had added him so it was my fault. After our last move yesterday, I removed the new plattforms on the permafrost near Frosthall. Those were placed hastily and didn't have the right distance and start point anyway. We ought to place them again next time (and perhaps remove afterwards). Thee snow markers next to the volcano are extremly helpful in that tight situation there with protection on one side and an abyss on the other. The landing plattforms for the descent at the side of Frosthall of course still exist. We need them to move the Miocene down safely (they take dammage when landing too much lower than where they started). I've cleaned up a bit in the area yesterday as well. But that was only nerdpoles and similar structures built to reach foci - clearly things we don't want to have sitting in the landscape. > poles and towers and mini-forts result in voice mobs building on top of them and using them, and it's a huge pain to clear those. Hm. That's a factor. I like the mini forts...and if Voice decides to "conquer" one or the other, sure, why not - he doesn't have much success elsewhere. He needs something as well :-) And we can't give him Miocene. He can have one or two fortresses :) The fortresses didn't seem too big of a problem regarding the foci. But then I only fought a few. Foci love spawning on high points, so your (flux') point of in particular the marker poles attracting foci is understandable. Perhaps Ravise can do a few design changes so that the poles themshelves and the "towers" of the fortresses are less high? The poles are a big help in finding the way to the volcano. Newer shepherds/guides still struggle with that. And of course there's protection making what would be easy with the compass very tricky in some areas. Perhaps "foci love high points for spawning" can be used by us to attract them to points a bit aside from the route? Bait..poles? The problem with protection and the Miocene moves ought to be solved. Why does their guide/shepherd need build rights in the area? I had to ask a player to add us to his protection just for that reason, and in Frosthall it went so badly wrong. Can't "TribeMiocene", "Tribe_Miocene" or "Miocene" (depending on what fits best) be created as a player, be under Alias' control, and players add permissions to their area only for that fake player? The Miocene would then have to check if the area allows *them* in. But that ought to be doable after a reboot.
Sign in to join this conversation.
No Milestone
No project
No Assignees
3 Participants
Notifications
Due Date
The due date is invalid or out of range. Please use the format 'yyyy-mm-dd'.

No due date set.

Dependencies

No dependencies set.

Reference: your-land/bugtracker#3980
No description provided.