InitialD reports: having some sort of magnet ite ... #155

New Issue

yourland-report · 2021-01-07T16:35:04Z

yourland-report commented

2021-01-07 16:35:04 +00:00

InitialD reports a bug:

having some sort of magnet item to draw in items would be nice

Player position:

{
	y = 14.5,
	x = 2021.9051513672,
	z = 1291.4739990234
}

Player look:

{
	y = -0.29053518176079,
	x = 0.85640525817871,
	z = 0.42680123448372
}

Log identifier


[MOD] yl_report log identifier = szzvvZIPd79VIAKUqSS3QxzelPaeos5m

Profiler save:

profile-20210107T173504.json_pretty

Status:

# Server: version=5.3.0-yl, uptime=48324, max_lag=1.02253, clients={darealbang, Aura, InitialD, RyanAZplay, grg, MASTERGIRL, Bishiro, AliasAlreadyTaken, Bailiff}

InitialD reports a bug: ``` having some sort of magnet item to draw in items would be nice ``` Player position: ``` { y = 14.5, x = 2021.9051513672, z = 1291.4739990234 } ``` Player look: ``` { y = -0.29053518176079, x = 0.85640525817871, z = 0.42680123448372 } ``` Log identifier ``` [MOD] yl_report log identifier = szzvvZIPd79VIAKUqSS3QxzelPaeos5m ``` Profiler save: ``` profile-20210107T173504.json_pretty ``` Status: ``` # Server: version=5.3.0-yl, uptime=48324, max_lag=1.02253, clients={darealbang, Aura, InitialD, RyanAZplay, grg, MASTERGIRL, Bishiro, AliasAlreadyTaken, Bailiff} ```

AliasAlreadyTaken was assigned by yourland-report

2021-01-07 16:35:04 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

1. kind/enhancement

label 2021-01-08 03:37:22 +00:00

flux referenced this issue

2022-01-05 20:38:58 +00:00

Lena reports: mod suggestion for item drops ... #778

flux commented

2022-01-05 20:40:31 +00:00

Here's a record from when I looked into an item like this in the past:

https://github.com/BlockySurvival/issue-tracker/issues/74

Hacking up an actual magnet item shouldn't be too hard, but nothing that exists currently is worth using.

Here's a record from when I looked into an item like this in the past: https://github.com/BlockySurvival/issue-tracker/issues/74 Hacking up an actual magnet item shouldn't be too hard, but nothing that exists currently is worth using.

flux commented

2022-01-05 21:27:05 +00:00

I made an item magnet mod:

https://github.com/fluxionary/minetest-item_magnet

I made an item magnet mod: https://github.com/fluxionary/minetest-item_magnet

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2022-05-10 20:08:01 +00:00

Mods like this already exist.

I'd like to not add that to YL for these reasons:

Such a magnet item would enable a player to easily vacuum off all loot in an area, like the arena.
This could be used as an afk mechanic
Together with the mithril scythe this would make harvesting effortless
Such an item has no drawbacks, everyone who doesn't use it is at a disadvantage. Same could be said about mappingkit or binoculars, but those items do not support rivalry between players.

Mods like this already exist. I'd like to not add that to YL for these reasons: 1. Such a magnet item would enable a player to easily vacuum off all loot in an area, like the arena. 2. This could be used as an afk mechanic 3. Together with the mithril scythe this would make harvesting effortless 4. Such an item has no drawbacks, everyone who doesn't use it is at a disadvantage. Same could be said about mappingkit or binoculars, but those items do not support rivalry between players.

AliasAlreadyTaken closed this issue

2022-05-10 20:08:02 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken added the

5. result/wontfix

label 2022-05-10 20:08:11 +00:00

flux commented

2022-05-10 20:20:21 +00:00

The item magnet tool that I made has to be "clicked" to use, only picks up things that're very close, and has durability. It's not a tool that'll passively suck up nearby items just by having it in your inventory.

AliasAlreadyTaken reopened this issue

2022-05-10 20:24:00 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken removed the

5. result/wontfix

label 2022-05-10 20:24:07 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2022-05-10 20:24:29 +00:00

I feel like it will still be a no, but let's at least consider it and investigate.

flux commented

2022-05-10 20:25:36 +00:00

Such a magnet item would enable a player to easily vacuum off all loot in an area, like the arena.

It certainly could help w/ collecting that loot.

This could be used as an afk mechanic

As it's not automatic, it's much less so than the vacuum tube is currently.

Together with the mithril scythe this would make harvesting effortless

This might make the mithril scythe more useful. currently, the scythe is nearly useless, because of its low durability, and the necessity of picking harvested crops off the floor. it's slightly more useful if you put vacuum tubes around your farm.

Such an item has no drawbacks, everyone who doesn't use it is at a disadvantage. Same could be said about mappingkit or binoculars, but those items do not support rivalry between players.

This is meant to be a tool to deal w/ the fact that the game mechanics currently require a back-and-forth communication w/ the server to pick up each item entity in a pile, which is ... incredibly annoying.

> 1. Such a magnet item would enable a player to easily vacuum off all loot in an area, like the arena. It certainly could help w/ collecting that loot. > 2. This could be used as an afk mechanic As it's not automatic, it's much less so than the vacuum tube is currently. > 3. Together with the mithril scythe this would make harvesting effortless This might make the mithril scythe more useful. currently, the scythe is nearly useless, because of its low durability, and the necessity of picking harvested crops off the floor. it's slightly more useful if you put vacuum tubes around your farm. > 4. Such an item has no drawbacks, everyone who doesn't use it is at a disadvantage. Same could be said about mappingkit or binoculars, but those items do not support rivalry between players. This is meant to be a tool to deal w/ the fact that the game mechanics currently require a back-and-forth communication w/ the server to pick up each item entity in a pile, which is ... incredibly annoying.

flux commented

2022-05-11 21:08:11 +00:00

Related: #831

flux added this to the flux's TODO list project 2022-07-02 17:51:55 +00:00

flux added the

2. prio/elevated

label 2022-09-04 03:53:35 +00:00

flux added the

4. step/discussion

label 2022-09-20 20:07:35 +00:00

flux referenced this issue

2022-10-13 22:02:25 +00:00

daydream reports: suggestion I wonder if there's ... #2745

flux referenced this issue

2022-10-24 19:50:10 +00:00

Hermes reports: Please make the mythril scythe ... #831

flux referenced this issue

2023-01-01 19:33:43 +00:00

Absolute_Mongoose reports: after finally trying the mithr ... #3391

flux referenced this issue

2023-01-10 19:58:45 +00:00

Absolute_Mongoose reports: mithril scythe is IRL breaking ... #3495

flux referenced this issue

2023-04-29 22:46:20 +00:00

sixer reports: It would be nice if there woul ... #4313

sixer commented

2023-05-08 12:56:18 +00:00

This can be especially annoying with all items that drop to ground - like electrumese axe (wood is chopped, leaves drop to ground), mithril hoe, or possibly any tool if you did not notice that your inventory is full and it is now dropping stuff to the ground. Choppy is fairly prone to that.

In the end it may be faster to just leave the blocks laying on the ground and get resources elsewhere (it is faster to mine 100 block from freshly created cave corridor than to collect 100 dropped blocks from the ground).

The tool does not need to be automatic (like standard picking in mineclone) or have big range (technic vacuum), there could be even a limit on how much it can grab on a single click (thus limiting both range and collected amount, like perhaps max. 99 ). But would be useful to limit tedious clicking to collect things on the floor.

This can be especially annoying with all items that drop to ground - like electrumese axe (wood is chopped, leaves drop to ground), mithril hoe, or possibly any tool if you did not notice that your inventory is full and it is now dropping stuff to the ground. Choppy is fairly prone to that. In the end it may be faster to just leave the blocks laying on the ground and get resources elsewhere (it is faster to mine 100 block from freshly created cave corridor than to collect 100 dropped blocks from the ground). The tool does not need to be automatic (like standard picking in mineclone) or have big range (technic vacuum), there could be even a limit on how much it can grab on a single click (thus limiting both range and collected amount, like perhaps max. 99 ). But would be useful to limit tedious clicking to collect things on the floor.

whosit commented

2023-05-08 13:12:52 +00:00

Broom and scoop?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=broom+with+a+scoop&iax=images&ia=images

Broom and scoop? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=broom+with+a+scoop&iax=images&ia=images

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-05-09 01:37:00 +00:00

Another reason not to do it: Currently trade is done by dropping items. It is rare but it happens that someone swoops in and takes the thing. If this taking could be done automatically with an item, even in a clandestine way, then we'd probably get more reports about items that went astray during a trade.

However there is a solution. Much like builders flight and the planned replacer limitation, we could make "broom and scoop" only work in an area people own. That would allow picking up items there, but not at spawn.

Another reason not to do it: Currently trade is done by dropping items. It is rare but it happens that someone swoops in and takes the thing. If this taking could be done automatically with an item, even in a clandestine way, then we'd probably get more reports about items that went astray during a trade. However there is a solution. Much like builders flight and the planned replacer limitation, we could make "broom and scoop" only work in an area people own. That would allow picking up items there, but not at spawn.

sixer commented

2023-05-09 04:39:09 +00:00

That would solve some usages, but not all of them, you often want this functionality in wilderness or perhaps in public farm with scythe. Maybe restrict it instead to places where you can build? (i.e. your area or wilderness allowed, spawn or other protected areas disallowed)

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-05-09 04:57:19 +00:00

Especially in cases of wilderness or shared areas like treefarm or public farm I do not want this functionality

whosit commented

2023-05-09 11:26:25 +00:00

Is there a way to make you pick up any pointed-at items while you hold a mouse button? (instead of clicking individually on each).
Not like a giant magnet, but a small vacuum cleaner.

Is there a way to make you pick up any pointed-at items while you _hold_ a mouse button? (instead of clicking individually on each). Not like a giant magnet, but a small vacuum cleaner.

sixer commented

2023-05-09 18:04:17 +00:00

Probably doable with proper gaming mouse and driver that supports "rapid fire", essentially converting button hold to a series of rapid clicks when extra button is pressed. Or with some similar trick.

whosit commented

2023-05-09 18:43:37 +00:00

Turbo-mouse? :D
I was thinking about making an in-game item for it...

Turbo-mouse? :D I was thinking about making an in-game item for it...

sixer commented

2023-05-09 18:54:28 +00:00

"Rapid fire" is relatively common feature found in many gaming mouse types, with exact functionality slightly differing by brand or type.

But yes, having an in-game item would be better than depending on having a good mouse :)

"Rapid fire" is relatively common feature found in many gaming mouse types, with exact functionality slightly differing by brand or type. But yes, having an in-game item would be better than depending on having a good mouse :)

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-05-10 05:42:46 +00:00

Clicking on things someone else dropped makes it very clear who did it.

Using a programmable mouse is borderline afk/bot/... mechanic I do not want on YL. Ofc noone can detect it, but still: Play the game, instead of gaming the game.

Clicking on things someone else dropped makes it very clear who did it. Using a programmable mouse is borderline afk/bot/... mechanic I do not want on YL. Ofc noone can detect it, but still: Play the game, instead of gaming the game.

whosit commented

2023-05-10 10:25:26 +00:00

I've made a prototype of what I was thinking:

https://gitea.your-land.de/whosit/dvornik

MT limitations do not allow anything like on_mouse_release, so it's not exactly as I imagined, and a bit of a hack.

Use garbage item to litter, then venik to clean it up if you want to test it.

I've made a prototype of what I was thinking: https://gitea.your-land.de/whosit/dvornik MT limitations do not allow anything like on_mouse_release, so it's not exactly as I imagined, and a bit of a hack. Use `garbage` item to litter, then `venik` to clean it up if you want to test it.

sixer commented

2023-05-10 20:48:55 +00:00

Using a programmable mouse is borderline afk/bot/... mechanic I do not want on YL. Ofc noone can detect it, but still: Play the game, instead of gaming the game.

People want to play the game, but if the play is interrupted by actions that require lot of repetitive boring clicking ... they try to find a way to make their life easier. Ideal way would be to have some in-game item to help with it, but if that is not available, people often look for alternative solutions. Rapid fire is relatively common across gaming mice. There are keyboards that support macros, programs that emulate key/mouse actions (like xdotool) and plethora of other ways when you are not willing to excercise your fingers :)

I personally am lazy and usually I just leave the stuff on the ground, unless it is something valuable. But others may behave otherwise ...

> Using a programmable mouse is borderline afk/bot/... mechanic I do not want on YL. Ofc noone can detect it, but still: Play the game, instead of gaming the game. People want to play the game, but if the play is interrupted by actions that require lot of repetitive boring clicking ... they try to find a way to make their life easier. Ideal way would be to have some in-game item to help with it, but if that is not available, people often look for alternative solutions. Rapid fire is relatively common across gaming mice. There are keyboards that support macros, programs that emulate key/mouse actions (like xdotool) and plethora of other ways when you are not willing to excercise your fingers :) I personally am lazy and usually I just leave the stuff on the ground, unless it is something valuable. But others may behave otherwise ...

flux commented

2023-05-11 04:53:49 +00:00

Currently trade is done by dropping items. It is rare but it happens that someone swoops in and takes the thing.

this is a social problem, not a technical one. as long as things are logged properly, staff can intervene and restore stolen goods and punish thieves. we do need a better technical solution for doing barter, but that's entirely separate.

we could make "broom and scoop" only work in an area people own.

totally do-able, but i still don't think it's unbalanced to allow people to use such a mechanism in unprotected areas. i'm neutral about blocking the mechanism in areas where the user has no rights to break nodes.

> Currently trade is done by dropping items. It is rare but it happens that someone swoops in and takes the thing. this is a social problem, not a technical one. as long as things are logged properly, staff can intervene and restore stolen goods and punish thieves. we *do* need a better technical solution for doing barter, but that's entirely separate. > we could make "broom and scoop" only work in an area people own. totally do-able, but i still don't think it's unbalanced to allow people to use such a mechanism in unprotected areas. i'm neutral about blocking the mechanism in areas where the user has no rights to break nodes.

flux commented

2023-05-11 05:03:43 +00:00

Play the game, instead of gaming the game.

the main goal of the game designer is to provide mechanisms for progression which are fun. making things harder is a general goal, but making things harder by making them tedious is not fun. picking items off the ground is made deeply annoying because of lag, and the lag is most likely not the fault of the player.

if you want to experiment w/ my item magnet, join my game mechanic test server "fuxtest" on the public server list. it's quite useful if when you use "craft all", don't have enough stamina, and drop all the ingredients on the floor.

> Play the game, instead of gaming the game. the main goal of the game designer is to provide mechanisms for progression which are fun. making things harder is a general goal, but making things harder by making them tedious is not fun. picking items off the ground is made deeply annoying because of lag, and the lag is most likely not the fault of the player. if you want to experiment w/ my item magnet, join my game mechanic test server "fuxtest" on the public server list. it's quite useful if when you use "craft all", don't have enough stamina, and drop all the ingredients on the floor.

AliasAlreadyTaken commented

2023-12-05 16:52:48 +00:00

There are various technical solutions, none of which fit into YL in my opinion. Unless new information arises, I'll close this.

AliasAlreadyTaken closed this issue

2023-12-05 16:52:49 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken added

5. result/wontfix

and removed

4. step/discussion

labels 2023-12-05 16:53:23 +00:00

flux removed this from the flux's TODO list project 2023-12-22 20:44:53 +00:00

AliasAlreadyTaken was unassigned by flux